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Is this a useful tactic? Or will it be just a theory?

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Lead and Support
I don't know if this caught on or something of that nature. I also haven't fully tested the method through.


Essentially what it's about, Lead and Support is having a "support/aid" Pokemon, at least in a double battle, pick up the lead Pokemon lacks in a minimum of one aspect. I'm not implying a core team. Unlike a core team, Lead and Support is more broad type advantage than a compact core team.


My example is (from Gale of Darkness):
Salamence: support/aid
Timid Nature
Ability Intimitate
Item: Dragon Claw
Areal Ace
Dragon Dance
Fly
Dragon Claw

Lugia: lead
Naive Nature
Ability: Pessure
Item: twisted spoon
Thunderbolt
Rain Dance
Hydro Pump
Psycho Boost


I know this pair is not ideal, but Salamence picks up the lost attack strength in Lugia. I think a core picks up an all aspects on the other Pokemon. I hope I made this 100% clear.

asked Mar 8, 2013 by Troll Patrol
edited Mar 8, 2013 by Troll Patrol

1 Answer

1 vote

First off: movesets.

Twisted Spoon is useless for Lugia because it has no offensive presence whatsoever, and it only boosts psychic moves. Dragon Claw is useless for Salamence since it only gives a 20% boost to Dragon type moves, which means all its other moves remain unboosted.

Fly = useless in competitive play. All moves that require more than 1 turn to be fully executed are worthless, because your opponent can fully predict when the move will take effect and either switch to a Pokemon with a resistance or use Protect/ Detect.

Why does Lugia have Rain Dance and nothing to benefit from it? Hydro Pump will get boosted in the rain, but no STAB and mediocre Sp. Atk; you're also missing EVs (I know this is Gale, but I'm going to use main line games as examples rather than a game that most people don't have the console for).


I had to say something about movesets, since I really don't understand what you mean by lead and support, or what you're trying to achieve with this pairing.

Lugia doesn't have any moves that will be of help to Salamence, it doesn't set up anything useful, nor does it have something like Heal Pulse which will benefit your attacker, nor an ability beneficial in doubles. Rain Dance actually makes the situation worse, what with Thunder being 100%. And why would you call your main attacking Pokemon 'support'?

Lead Pokemon: Pokemon that sets up the playing field with weather effects, hazards, or a status ailment. Also includes scouts who can use U-Turn/ Volt Switch, or Fake Out.
E.g., Politoed, sets up weather with its ability; Mienshao, Scarfed and scouts with U-Turn, or Life Orb Fake Out; Forretress, sets up hazards.

Support Pokemon: Pokemon that will heal the team or keep the team from being swept, such as walls for switch ins, or clerics to Wish pass.
E.g., Blissey, cleric; Bronzong, wall/ dual screens.

Those are the common meanings for Lead and Support Pokemon. Perhaps you should find different terms for what you're trying to say here, because I don't understand what role you've assigned to Lugia at all.

Pokemon that help attacking Pokemon in doubles are ones like Latias and Blissey, if only because of Heal Pulse. Latias can also set up dual screens.

I think a core picks up an all aspects on the other Pokemon.

Thing is, this pair doesn't. I think you should rethink another example to make yourself clearer?

But then you say before

I'm not implying a core team.

Then what are you implying?? Sorry, I can't figure out what you're trying to achieve with your pairing.

I'll put a doubles example below of a sweeper & a support Pokemon.


Sweeper
Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Hp, 216 Sp. Def, 40 Atk
Nature:
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Support
Latias @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Sp. Atk
Nature: Timid
- Reflect
- Light Screen/ Dragon Pulse
- Heal Pulse
- Roost

OR

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 HP
Nature: Bold
- Heal Pulse
- Heal Bell
- Softboiled
- Toxic/ Thunder Wave


The traditional "core" team in singles is something like Scizor and Rotom-W; this example sees Scizor take the Grass hits, and Rotom-W take the Fire hits. Cores consist of Pokemon that can wall each other's weaknesses.

Lugia and Salamence both have a x2 Rock weakness and a x2 / x4 Ice weakness (respectively). I know its harder to counter your partner's weaknesses in doubles, but having two Pokemon that can be swept by the same moves on the field isn't a good idea.

answered Mar 8, 2013 by fondant
I'm hindered by a 3rd gen game that has limited pokemon and I can accumulate better advantages from the two Gamecube cames, so keep this in mind.
 ~~Firstly, Lugia is a wall (high defence and health) and has 3 different types of attack moves.  While Salamence is a sweeper and can take care of some threats. There is a chemistry, may be little evident,  wall + sweeper = good advantage.
~~~Secondly, I plan to use a team that can learn various types of moves. Salamence and Lugia are good examples.
~~~thirdly, I want to expand this concept and I haven't worked out ALL the problems with this tactic.
~~~~Lastly, I want good pokemon when I tranfer them to my Black 2.
1st point: Lugia cannot wall if it does not have a recovery method. Nor does it wall anything Salamence is weak to. Walling also does not work the same way in doubles because your opponent can choose who they will target.
2nd point: Lugia is not a good example. It has mediocre special attack, especially for a Uber Pokemon.
3rd point: your first post was really confusing in what you wanted to achieve. I didn't understand at all what was new about this strategy. Also as Pokeslash said: not an original idea.
4th point: how is this relevant? In any case it's not like Lugia's hard to obtain. HGSS gives it out in-game.
Lugia is obtainable in Gale of Darkness for Gamecube, in fact, Lugia is on the cover of the game! Like I said this IS A DEVELOPING IDEA, so it CAN CHANGE! (sorry for caps) If you find this confusing then why bother answering this question and furthering your confusion. I am trying to make it clear to you, obviously I'm failing at it. I recommend read reading my profile, it states any down votes will not harm me, but benefit me.
I never said Lugia was unobtainable in Gale. I just don't see the point of getting a Pokemon in Gale when you can get it easily in HGSS (the amount of work needed to transfer from Gale to a Gen V game is just tedious).

I was trying to help you by giving my answer. From what I can see, your strategy doesn't work. You don't understand the synergy in double battles.

If you don't want my advice then leave it.
Honestly, I appreciate your answer, but to me, you didn't answer in the fashion that I was intending.

The main reason I wanted to state this concept, that I could get people's opinion.

There is the possibility I personally didn't get HG/SS and got the experience on a friend's copy. So the only way to get Pokemon like Lugia is via Gale of Darkness.