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Why does Ash have difficulty with first gym leaders (meant for beginner trainers)?

0 votes

Normally when trainers go up against gym leaders like Falkner, Roxanne, Roark, The Striaton Bros., Cheren, and Viola for their first badge, it means they are beginners who recently caught their first few Pokemon.

With Ash however, even though he never actually defeated Brock, he at least made it to the Indigo League. Five regions later, Viola mops the floor with him. So how is an actual beginner (like Serena) supposed to fare against an OP gym leader like her if Ash manages to lose to her on his first try?

Would they have to do five regions worth of training before they can defeat the first gym leader in their home region?

asked by

3 Answers

5 votes

In the anime, levels do not exist, and battles are essentially done for substance and plot production. This is clearly evident in Surskit using Ice Beam to freeze the battlefield and Vivillon using Psychic to trap Fletchling in a Sticky Web and leaving it defenseless to Solarbeam. Anime battle are a lot more... vivid.

Think about it. If Ash roflstomped Viola, would there be any motive to train with her/challenge her again? No, not at all. Viola would barely see character development, and her character would quickly be forgotten.


Would they have to do five regions worth of training before they can defeat the first gym leader in their home region?

Ash doesn't always have the same Pokemon. Ash actually only had 2 Pokemon on hand during that battle, both of which were not fully evolved, to Viola's Vivillon and Surskit.


So how is an actual beginner (like Serena) supposed to fare against an OP gym leader like her if Ash manages to lose to her on his first try?

Serena actually witnessed the battle, seeing Viola's tactics used against Ashe. Since levels don't exist, remember, Serena could easily use these tactics against her. Also, Serena has Fennekin, which has a type advantage over Viola.

answered by
What do levels have to do with any of this? I never once brought it up. As for getting stronger, experience is just as common as it is in the real world.

And besides, if levels really did exist, Pikachu would've reached his limit years ago.

BTW, Pikachu sucking is a vague opinion, not a fact. It's like saying Goku manages to outclass all his friends because he's awesome.

But still, a newbie has a chance of winning on their first try (in the anime), while Ash can't?
1) Levels gauge a Pokemon's strength, and I'm telling you it doesn't exist. Hurrah!
2) Exactly, and that's why Ash won the second battle, no?
3) Obviously.
4) I agree.
5) That's because Serena has type advantage, and Fletchling just dies o3o. In all seriousness, however, Ash doesn't know Viola's battling style. And that's why he lost.

...for real, who can FREEZE A BATTLEFIELD?
Fletchling was a good answer for the ice but honestly if I didn't know what the second Pokémon was I'd have used Froakie. Just use frubbles and the ice field becomes a mine field for Surskit. At the very least you would funnel it's movements to certain areas.
Why didn't Vivillon just use psychic the whole time though? There's no way to defend it and you can't exactly attack back in the anime if they abuse it.
Does anyone else notice that all of Ash's current Pokémon are fast and frail. The team needs to get some bulk on it. I don't even care if he needs to reunite with his Snorlax at the bridge just get some bulk. I would prefer to see a Goodra though. The gooey hugs would also serve as great anime humor.
The anime is meant to be entertaining, not to make sense. For example, in gen 3 ash and friends go through a desert. When they run out of water, they faint from the heat. Any smart person would just use their water pokemon. But because that would be boring, Nintendo chose entertainment over sense, like many other shows. If everything was easy like the game, the show would be boring
I got a better one: How come I beat Viola on my first try and Ash couldn't. Am I a far better trainer than Ash?
In the games or the anime?
In general. Even if levels DID exist in the anime (even though they WERE mentioned in EP009), I wasn't exactly an uber-class at the time.
There is the fact that ash usually starts with new and untrained pokemon aswell
1 vote

probaly because he is not used to the new Pokemon from Kalos. Also in the anime, style matters too. Ash may not be used to the style of the gym leaders. Plus, pikachu sucks.

answered by
Pikachu is Cuuute
cute =/= strong
what about gardevoir?
1 vote

In all honesty Ash is a horrible trainer, he repeatedly hands over several of his Pokemon to be trained by others, then never sees them again. He refuses to evolve many of his Pokemon making there excess of levels worthless because there stats never reach there maximum potential. Also Levels do exist in the anime it season 6 they are referenced at least 4 times on separate occasions.
If Ash was a good trainer we would see him thrashing every gym with Charizard, Sceptile, Donphan, Kingler, Muk and he would of evolved Pikachu a long time ago, these where all Pokemon Ash has and leaves in his boxes and could be using to actually win a league.
Ash is a sub-par trainer he always looses at the first gym and generally looses at least three gym battles and has to try again or wins by fluke like how he won against Wattson.

answered by
In Anime, your bond with your Pokemon matters more. He releases Pokemon because they want to be happy
He doesn't evolve Pokemon because they don't, they want to prove you don't need to be evolved to be stronger.
Like how the wand chooses the wizard, the Pokemon chooses the trainer.
Ok, I know this is from 2014 and I'm responding to that you who was an idiot compared to the now you, please don't take anything personal from this.

In all honesty, you are an idiot; Ash is a pretty damn good trainer if you actually watched rather than looked at the series while it's on the screen.
1. "He repeatedly hands over several of his Pokemon to be trained by others, then never see them again." ********, the only one we've seen that done to was Primeape. "Primeape was the first of Ash's Pokémon to be left with another Trainer for training and the only one among them that has not been reunited with Ash ever since." Straight from Bulbapedia and only in the dub did it ever give us a hint that Primeape could return, which is honestly unreliable for these kinds of things since that dub REALLY know how to manipulate things. Any other Pokemon he left with someone to train has always come back like Gliscor and Squirtle.

2. "He refuses to evolve many of his Pokemon making there excess of levels worthless because there stats never reach there maximum potential." It has been shown even in the first series that Ash doesn't need to evolve his Pokemon to the last form in order for them to do their best, unlike in the games where the Pokemon are legit made to be strong up to this certain numbered point and you can't really use them like the anime does unless you cheat them or overpower them. He gets through entire leagues (not even counting the final actual league itself) and not evolve most of his Pokemon and it can work for him.

3. "also Levels do exist in the anime it season 6 they are referenced at least 4 times on seperate occasions." They are in fact mentioned some bit in the series at different times, in the eng dub, not too sure about the original jap dub. Even then the "levels" are definitely not video game type of levels where your stats are a lot of the times based on what your numerical level is. It's most likely a battle experience kind of thing. More on this here: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Level#In_the_anime

4. "If Ash was a good trainer we would see him thrashing every gym with Charizard, Sceptile, Donphan, Kingler, Muk and he would of evolved Pikachu a long time ago, these where all Pokemon Ash has and leaves in his boxes and could be using to actually win a league". That's where I found that you must be joking around because of how retarded it is, but in case you aren't: 1. That would break so many of their characters that it would make a lot of the stuff they and us had went through meaningless. 2. By not keeping older, stronger Pokemon on him after going to a new region he doesn't sweep the place and actually has a challenge from trainers he will meet along the way. This was a major point in the first few eps of the Johto series and you forgot it. You ******* pleb. 3. With all the Pokemon that would come up later and their trainer's strats they would get fucked up. 4. Hey remember that time where Ash was going to evolve Pikachu to make him stronger after losing to Lt. Surge, but Pikachu rejected it by it's own choice and as it turns out it incredibly BENEFITTED FROM NOT EVOLVING? No? You don't? Its in the first series and is able to be seen on Youtube and you haven't seen it? You should because it helps their CHARACTER and by evolving Pikachu by force and not because it wants to would destoy both of theirs. 5. Boxes don't exist, Oak's ranch does, the league isn't just 4 powerful trainers and a champion at the end, its full of trainers who fought 8 gyms like him and have earned the right to beat him and lose to him even though it sucks he loses.

5. "Ash is a sub-par trainer he always looses at the first gym and generally looses at least three gym battles and has to try again or wins by fluke like how he won against Wattson." 1. I implore you to learn what the value of character is in terms of growth, depth, and all of it's other fasets and then watch the entire series all over again to learn just how dumb your head is. He is a damn good trainer who had accomplished many things in his career that we don't hear about from any other trainer and is in series commended and respected for those accomplishments. 2. He didn't lose to Falkner, Roxanne, or the Striaton Bros., the first gym leaders, and it's usually because he is at a disadvantage or doesn't know how the enemy fights which is really important in the anime because there are physics in it and they can use the whole area to do things. 3. If he did win all of his major battles and never lost that would be unrelatable Gary Stu-ish, which people would end up hating. 4. You are right in the fact he won the first time against Wattson was a fluke because of what happened before the battle. Nearly any time before the Johto journey of the OS a lot of his wins were flukish because he didn't win them in battle just through shows of valor and heroism ****. Other than that he wins with skill and strat.