Why does Mantine suck?

Question

I was playing with my pokemans, and I have a question about Mantine. He's got similar base stats, defensive use, and applications as Skarmory. I thought he had Draginite syndrome and was overshadowed by the likes of Skarm and Zapdos, effectively, a diamond in the rough. I bred one and later played Pokemon showdown for play test reasons, and he's practically unusable. Why is he so bad, or am I just using him wrong? What separates him from Skarm?

Comments

Massive Electric weakness, inferior defensive typing, and being severely outclassed by Gyarados all make it suck.

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also that is a mater of opinon.

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No mention of Steve Irwin anywhere.

You all should be disappointed in yourselves.

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Don't bring up painful memories, man D:

Answer 1

I'm going to answer your question in two parts, the first being why Mantine sucks in general and the second being what makes Skarmory and other bulky Flying-types oh so much better.

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So, why does fluffy little Mantine suck so badly?

Well, there are a few reasons, the first being awful defensive typing. Water/Flying has a weakness to two common attacking types, Electric and Rock. On the defensive side, he has resistances to Fire, Fighting, Steel, Water and Bug.

But some of those are really common attacking types?

True, but Mantine can't do squat back to the attackers due to its really, really poor movepool and offensive stats. Coverage-wise, his best attacks are Earthquake, Rock Slide, Acrobatics, Waterfall, Seed Bomb, Gunk shot, Bullet Seed… which would be awesome if his Attack stat wasn't an abyssmal 40. His Sp. Attack is slightly more useful at 80, but his Special movepool is limited to Air Slash, Scald, Hydro Pump, Signal Beam, Ice Beam and Hidden Power. As for his support movepool, he has a good one for Doubles; Tailwind, Wide Guard, and Helping Hand. Unfortunately, there are other Flying types who do that better.

So what makes Mantine so inferior to all the other Flying-types?

Let's compare them, shall we?

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Epic Pokémon Battles of Historyyyyy!!

Mantine!

versus!

Every other Flying-type Pokémon!

BEGIN!

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Skarmory has vastly superior defensive typing and defensive stats, as well as support/wall movepool.

Talonflame steals the show with priority Tailwind, Brave Bird and Roost recovery, as well as better offensive typing.

Zapdos has far more relative bulk than Mantine. He can go Bulky Tailwind, speedy offense or even Toxic stall (not recommended).

Togekiss is sooo much better in both Singles and Doubles due to being bulkier, having a faster Tailwind, Serene Grace, a much better support movepool, better defensive typing and Follow Me redirection.

Gyarados has the exact same typing as Mantine, but better HP and Defence. He also has the coveted Intimidate ability, as well as Moxie for sweeping. He's faster, stronger, and has a much better movepool. He can run bulky, support, Dragon Dance, Assault Vest, and has a Mega Evolution. Gyarados is probably the number one reason Mantine is never used.

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Who won?!

In conclusion, Mantine is vastly inferior to virtually every flying-type due to his poor stat distribution, movepool, and typing. But don't fret; Mantine will fly through the ocean providing a home for orphaned Remoraid for eons to come.

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P.S.
>No mention of Steve Irwin anywhere.
You all should be disappointed in yourselves. ~ DarkTyphlosion

Mantine is also modelled after a stingray, which killed Steve Irwin the Crocodile Hunter, who was my entire childhood. So yeah.

Comments

Mantine is modeled after a Manta Ray... not a stingray.  Two somewhat similar, but still vastly different creatures.

Answer 2

Mantine suffers from many things, and even though it's the supposable couterpart to Skarmory, the are much different in almost every aspect. One reason why I believe Mantine sucked so much for you was probably because you used it in a tier above NU. That's usually a no no. But the reasons why it's so bad are shown below:

• Bad defensive typing, being weak to Stealth Rock and quad weak to Electric.
• Outclassed overall as a special wall. A lot of Pokemon do its job better, and have a means of reliable recovery, which makes Pokemom such as Mantine horrible in comparison.
• Bad offensive presense. Having to rely on gimmick Rain Dain+Life Orb sets, that's usually the only thing it can do to sweep, which other mons can do better in the higher tiers do to their superior offensive stats and access to boosting moves.
• Abilities that do not really help Mantine. Water Absorb, although nice to have, isn't really as helpful as it already resists Water while having such SDef. Swift Swim I already explained. And Water Veil makes it immune to burns, but it can still get Toxiced and Paralyzed.

These factors all hinder this Pokemon, and just make it very much outclassed in today's Generation. What separates it from Skarmory are three things. Typing, Utility and Recovery. Skarmory has a superior typing as it has a part Steel typing. Skarmory has access to Hazards, Defog, status, and Phazing moves, which helps keep Skarmory a revelent wall in this current metagame. And perhaps the biggest thing it has over Mantine is Recovery in the form of Roost. Something that Mantine wishes to have, Skarmory has and abuses easily. Skarmory and Mantine are two completely different Pokemon, one having superior uses towards the other.