Could pyroar be viable in any format where there's flutter mane?

Question

so pyroar if one out off 2 Pokemon that resist fairy and immune to ghost, I mean look at these calcs:

252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Pyroar: 132-156 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. Pyroar: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Mystical Fire vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Pyroar in Sun: 104-123 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 180 SpD Pyroar: 109-128 (34.8 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

more calculations:

252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 236 Def Pyroar in Sun: 133-156 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice High Horsepower vs. 28 HP / 236 Def Pyroar: 270-318 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Glacial Lance vs. 28 HP / 236 Def Pyroar: 127-150 (39.6 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

the stats don't lie, it learns yawn, helping hand, entrainment and hyper voice, heat wave.

Comments

These two Pokemon don't exist in a vacuum. Even if Pyroar was a perfect counter for Flutter Mane (which it isn't), it still exists in the context of the greater metagame, which it's pretty bad in — go try it out in Gen 9 Ubers, where Flutter Mane is, and see how it goes.

This is something you'll see come up in Smogon tiers a lot. A Pokemon having one specific counter doesn't make it balanced: it's why Dracovish is banned in Gen 8 despite Seismitoad countering it, and why Koraidon isn't allowed below Ubers even though Dachsbun can take care of it.

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pyroar won me the game: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9vgc2026regi-2529133211-egmvsnwjirh2hqnfs6iy7u55x0uutaipw

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You can get away with a lot in low ladder — but if you're using Pyroar, you're likely going to stay low ladder. The higher you get, the more you will find Pyroar cannot pull its weight.

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well I dunno what you were thinking but I was asking a question for people like me amethyst, people who won't accomplish anything in their lives even when they are playing video games in pajamas.

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Amethyst was being objective there. When you're considering viability, which is what your question asks about, you have to consider what roles your Pokemon fulfill in order to exist and counter threats in a metagame. It's not enough to be able to perfectly counter a specific Pokemon in theory. Your team needs to be built in order to respond the various Pokemon you will see, not just the ones an individual might face. Although unconventional/unviable picks have found and can find success, it's not too often, so before you experiment with unconventional choices, my personal suggestion is to use more common Pokemon and strategies and battle against higher ranking players so you can get a good idea of the strategies and Pokemon you have to play against. Once you get a decent grasp of the metagame, that's when I would start experimenting with Pokemon that can counter specific threats while still being able to keep up with the other members of the team/tier.

To put it bluntly, not every Pokemon can find success in a specific format, and not every Pokemon can find success in competitive play in general. However, nobody is stopping you from playing for fun and messing around with unusual picks. But the reality of competitive is that if you're trying to play seriously, your unconventional picks will often find less success when you climb up the ladder and face better players.

All this to say, I haven't played competitive seriously in a while, so good luck on your competitive journey.

Answer 1

To put it bluntly, no, Pyroar would not be viable against Flutter Mane or in any mainstream format containing it.

Flutter Mane frequently runs Power Gem, which is a guaranteed OHKO. Even without Power Gem, Moonblast or any common coverage move is a guaranteed 2HKO. Because Flutter Mane easily outspeeds Pyroar, it's unlikely that Pyroar will come out on top.

It's kind of odd to have a Pyroar with the Sp. Def allocation in your example. Pyroar's defensive stats are too poor to be worth investing in, since it'll still get wiped out fairly easily (especially in a format that allows the likes of Flutter Mane), so it usually invests in Sp. Atk and Speed to make use of its best (but ultimately still mediocre) stats. Here are some damage calculations with a Pyroar that doesn't have defensive EVs:

• 252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 378-446 (120.7 - 142.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 168-198 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Life Orb Flutter Mane Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 185-218 (59.1 - 69.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Pyroar Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 123-145 (49 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

Flutter Mane is ranked as B in Ubers' viability rankings, whereas Pyroar currently sits at a B in ZU's viability rankings, representing an extremely disparate difference in power. Even if Pyroar countered Flutter Mane, a decent opponent would just switch out, since Pyroar would not be able to stand up to most of the other common threats in a format that allows Flutter Mane. You mentioned Miraidon–now why would it use Dazzling Gleam when it could just outspeed and...

• 252+ SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Miraidon Electro Drift vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar in Electric Terrain: 672-792 (214.6 - 253%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Pyroar is a pretty poor Pokémon in general; it's held back by an awkward stat allocation, a lack of good abilities (Moxie as a Sp. Attacker...), a weakness to Stealth Rock, and by just being generally outclassed by many other Fire-types. For every strength it has, there are numerous other Pokémon who can do it better, especially in a format that's unrestricted enough to allow Flutter Mane.

This is actually a good example of how comparing Pokémon by their typings in isolation doesn't give a good picture of who has the upper hand.

Comments

thanks but, umm, you noticed yoyu gave pyroar 0 Ev's right?

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I edited to explain the reason. Running a defensive Pyroar is probably an even worse idea... Yes, it does let it survive an extra hit from Flutter Mane, but you're worsening its awkward stat allocation by spreading EVs across poor base stats that are still not good even after investment. Remember that Pyroar won't be able to hit back as well either since your EVs were diverted away from Sp. Atk, so you'll realistically still be fainted first.