Chasin' Waterfalls (Rain team) VGC - Need some professional input

Question

Please, professional opinions and input only.
Thank you.

Mega
Swampert@Swampertite
Ability: Torrent-->Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 100 HP/252 Atk/156 Spe
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Protect

Bulky rain setter
Politoed@Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drizzle
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP/76 Def/76 Sp Atk/100 Sp Def/4 Spe
Scald
Icy Wind
Protect
Perish Song

Niche Physical Attacker
Armaldo@Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
Rock Slide
X-Scissor
Aqua Jet
Protect

Bulky Physical Attacker
Scizor@Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Sp Def
Bullet Punch
Knock Off/Superpower
U-Turn
Swords Dance/Protect

I have a few concerns with Scizor's moveset, and whether or not he should be jolly. I saw a few have Bug Bite for the Technician boost to base 90 damage which makes me second guess myself.

Physical Tank
Rotom Wash@Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Sp Def
Thunder/Thunderbolt
Hydro Pump
Will-O-Wisp
Protect

Bulky Special Attacker (Boomer)
Goodra@Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/?? Sp Atk/?? Def
Draco Meteor
Thunder/Thunderbolt
Focus Blast/Dragon Tail
Sludge Bomb/Fire Blast

First, I apologize for not remembering Goodra's specific EV spread. I know its Sp Atk is in the 200 area, and Def is in the high 80s. Regardless, I think it's safe to say that it needs fixing. Secondly, Goodra has such a diverse movepool that I'm not sure which ones help the team best.
Lastly, I chose Sap Sipper over Hydration because the team has 3 weaknesses to grass. Also, its dragon typing helps out with a fire switch for Scizor and electric for Politoed.

Here is a link with type resistances for a better visual.
http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?186|260m|348|706|212|479w

Comments

Okay I like this team, I will do my best to try and do an RMT

Answer 1

Suggestions and actual rate:

(changes in italics)

Politoed @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 76 SpA / 100 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Perish Song / Helping Hand
- Protect

This set is pretty much good to go! I can't think of much to improve here. However, consider running Helping Hand over Perish Song in case you ever felt it was too risky. I changed the item to Leftovers since there was an addition I made which needs Sitrus more.

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Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Protect

Also good to go, I can't think of much to improve here. Alternative coverage could be obtained in Superpower and Rock Slide over Ice Punch, but I think the current set is more that good enough.

Nessie (Goodra) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

This is the Goodra spread I generally use, and it works well enough for me to suggest it here. Your Goodra was quite similar to mine, I just finalized it's moves and an EV spread for it. Main goal is to hit everything hard and to survive long enough. Here are it's details, in case you were wondering:

>252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Salamence: 168-200 (98.8 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

>252+ SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Salamence: 174-206 (102.3 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>252+ SpA Goodra Sludge Bomb vs. 164 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 68-80 (38.6 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

>252+ SpA Goodra Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Lucario: 178-210 (122.7 - 144.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

>252 SpA Mega Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 102-120 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

>252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 57-68 (29.2 - 34.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 3HKO

>252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 133-159 (68.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Scizor @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off / Quick Guard
- Bug Bite / Feint
- Protect

I tweaked Scizor's spread to balance out it's defenses and offenses a little more evenly. The more prominent changes are in the moves however. You were originally skeptical about Bug Bite, but consider this: Bug Bite bones Cresselia (one of the bulkiest utility pokemon in the current meta) and even has a chance of eating it's Sitrus Berry to heal it's own HP. Alternative to this is Feint, a move that can hit through Protect.
The other optional change I made was adding Quick Guard into Scizor. It's unexpected, and brings a halt to numerous Prankster users and general priority.

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Thundurus (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 44 SpA / 68 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt

I have avidly used Rotom-W in the current VGC meta. I've come to this conclusion that unlike in singles, Rotom isn't the pokemon you can just slap on to any team and make it work at top level. For example on this team, Rotom despite being an Electric type cannot conquer Charizard-Y, because it's Water typing left in vulnerable to Charizard's nuclear Solar Beam. Henceforth, Thundurus is your man here, over good ol' Washington.

This particular set is Aaron (Cybertron) Zheng's set, down to the T. It's the Electric type that is going to check Charizard-Y and stand for the general speed control of your team. Imagine a situation where Politoed is gone, and you need that Swampert (or any other team member) to pull off a sweep. However it isn't fast enough. Thundurus' T-Wave helps exactly with that. Taunt is always a nice addition to any Thundurus.

The EVs,

• survive a Stone Edge from Adamant 252 Atk Landorus-T
• survive a Life Orb Draco Meteor from Modest 252 SpA Hydreigon
• outspeeds positive nature base 70s like Breloom.

OR

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Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Poison Jab / Double Kick / Zen Headbutt
- Protect

Terrakion is a favorite in rain teams because of his ability to eliminate Charizard-Y and Ferrothorn, while still being a pretty stubborn fighter outside rain. It works best with it's simple vanilla spread. You have choices for coverage moves: you could opt Poison Jab to give those slow Fairy types the surprise of their lives, Double Kick to bump through Substitutes and Sashes, or Zen Headbutt to deal with Venusaur and Amoonguss. People also run Earthquake, however it is much more risky.

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Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 92 SpA / 164 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Overheat
- Swords Dance / Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

I understand Armaldo was your niche option and you probably don't want it gone, but think about it. It really isn't helping the team when you have a Scizor with you, and for a Swift Swim user you have your Swampert. If you chose Terrakion then there is even more reason you'd want Armaldo out. I'm sorry but it was somewhat necessary, you have to utilize the few slots you are left with in a rain team wisely.

Talonflame is quite literally the firepower of your team. It's a glass cannon; it was never meant to last. But basically it's there so that you can click Brave Bird to watch the world burn. On this team though, it also rocks Overheat (the reason why those odd 92 SpA EVs are there) which can royally screw defensive pokemon that thought they could take T-flame on, like Landorus-T. 92 EVs so that it can OHKO Mega Metagross outside of rain with Overheat. Rest is all in Attack and Speed.

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TL;DR:

Team before rate:
Team after rate: /

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Hope you liked this rate, and found it useful!

Comments

You're back :D
Would Rotom-Heat be a good option? I looked through your threatlist and it can OHKO everything but Gastrodon and Venusaur (the latter still takes ~50% outside of Rain).

252+ SpA Rotom-H Overheat vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 172-208 (95 - 114.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

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I sure wish I was back xD college is on fire these days, and now that I got my license I have to drive myself to work as well.

And now that you think of it, Rotom-H is a pretty option too :o It's not really as fast as Thundurus or Terrakion (since I was looking for something to smash Charizard) but definitely something to consider. I'll probably add it in when I get home again :>

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The thing is, Rotom doesn't have to be faster than Charizard because it literally walls the crap out of it. I like the Life Orb variant myself, but Sitrus / Scarf variants work too.

Perhaps Virizion > Terrakion? It still checks Charizard with (albeit a shaky) Stone Edge, plus it gives you a way of beating bulky Waters named Gastrodon. Terrekion's just a tad outdated nowadays, but it's by no means unviable.

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'. Half of it doesn't like it's face, and the other half can't damage it's face'
xD

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The problem is that even though Rotom-H solidly beats Charizard, it being slower means it cannot stop Charizard from moving first. Until then, Charizard is free to do whatever it wants, and the problem is quite a bit of his team falls to Charizard's Solar Beam and Drought. It's a good choice, no doubt, but just to immediately threaten Charizard Thundurus is, imo, superior.

I don't really have a whole deal of experience with Virizion, so it didn't immediately click to me as Terrakion did. I believe it does require a Life Orb to be doing damage though, and its a taken item :x but Virizion is a great idea for the FWG core on this team.

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@Silver I've been seeing too many face cream advertisements lol.

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@Scilicet Wow, thank you so much for the awesome suggestions, checks/counters, and even calculations :O. I took your advice on replacing Sir Washington with Thundurus and as much as it hits me right in the feels, I swapped Armaldo with Talonflame. I've been meaning to put Talonflame on this team for a while and just didn't want to give up that Armaldo. Anyway, I also went with your Quick Guard idea on Scizor. If  Knock Off seems more valuable during testing I can always switch. Thanks for clearing up his IVs and Goodra's as well. I will keep Terrakion on the sidelines in case I want to try him out in the team. What nature would you give him?

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Not trying to steal Scilicet's thunder or anything, but all Terrakion must run Jolly. This guarantees that you outspeed Mega Kangaskhan and do not get OHKOd by Low Kick.

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Right, I figured as much. I wanted to make sure because it looks as if Scilicet likes to surprise her opponents a lot haha. Thanks for chiming in though.

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Woah dang, I didn't realize my Terrakion didn't have a nature o.o

And no problem, so long as my efforts weren't wasted :D
I didn't like switching out Armaldo either, but alongside Thundurus you also needed a TR counter. T-flame's priority looked just too good. If I had shifted concentration onto Armaldo, I may have replaced more of your team, but I never replace more than 2 mons.

And if you want, check out Virizion over Terrakion as well! My answer's too big to add in any more suggestions, so I might as well suggest it here :>

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Your efforts are much appreciated ^^ I'll take a look at Virizion. By the way, while testing this Scizor, my opponent clearly wasn't expecting quick guard and straight up forfeited the turn after. It was hilarious.

 I have one last weather team I've been trying out. I'll make another RMT within the next few days for it, and would love your input.

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Haha good to see Quick Guard pay off. I would try looking into your next team, although since I only get here on mobile there's a good chance I wouldn't be able to rate :<

Answer 2

Bird's Eye View:

OK, I'm going to try rating this team. I'm a bit rusty because of my hiatus, but I'll do my best!

This team looks decent on paper. There's room for improvement though, since you are going to have a tough time conquering every team you mean with the team in it's current state. Let's start off by what you really need to watch out for:

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Public enemy no. 1: Mega Venusaur

Completely destroys your team. Half of it doesn't like it's face, and the other half can't damage it's face. All in all, you don't want to go face to face with it. And every rain team must have at least one/two counters for it. You have Goodra but Venusaur often has teammates to cater to that.

Public enemy no. 2: Mega Charizard Y

Pulls out your rain clouds and forces you to the shades of defeat (damn I've hit a new kind of cheesy today xD). I would suggest you carry around a fast Electric type to deal with him, like Thundurus-I.

Public enemy no. 3: Ferrothorn

Ok he's not that popular, but believe me if this guy was more common then your team would've been straight up dead. Your only line of defense is Goodra, but Ferrothorn due to it's typing often finds itself paired with Fairy (Sylveon, Gardevoir. Togekiss) and Dragon types (M-Salamence, Hydreigon), both of which offer Goodra eradication.

Public enemy no. 4: Amoonguss

This is the one Grass type that even Goodra can't save you from. It's pretty simple why. Amoonguss doesn't even attack you, it just stands there and supports. What's worse is that Amoonguss is really thick, and you'd want a super-effective move to take him down, and in this team it's Ice Punch on Swampert. Unfortunately, Swampert would hate taking a Giga Drain from it.

Public enemy no. 5: Gastrodon

Don't worry, this is the last. But don't count it any less than the rest, this thing is amazingly annoying when it gets going, and I've seen this first hand. Half your team carries Water type moves, and Gastrodon sucks it all up with Storm Drain. Not only that, it even gains health and keeps it's teammate from taking the attack. This slug can be found alongside other weather setters (including rain), and goes well with Charizard and Tyranitar. Cradily is in the same boat as Gastrodon.

Comments

Continued into answer two, since it seemed to exceed 8000 alphabets no matter what I tried xD