[Gen 8] LC - Mareanie + Ferroseed + Vullaby Balance

Question

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 20 Def / 92 SpA / 180 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Haze
- Recover

Mareanie is so annoying, and so great. Scald helps it get burns off on dangerous opponents, like Pawniard, Onix (though it’ll probably die to that 4x weakness), Archen, Timburr, Mienfoo, and Grookey. Knock Off allows it to cripple other Mareanies, Ferroseed, Vullaby, and Spritzee -- and that’s only some of the many defensive Pokemon. On the offensive spectrum, it can remove Life Orbs from Mienfoo and Timburr, Flame Orb from Guts users, Berry Juice from Onix and Magnemite (but why use Knock Off on either of them), and Choice Scarf from the few users in the tier. Haze neutralizes Swords Dance Pawniard and Grookey, stops Shell Smash Shellder in its tracks, doesn’t allow Timburr to sweep with Bulk Up, and prevents Vullaby from getting too many Nasty Plots off. Recover, Eviolite, and Regenerator make Mareanie nigh unkillable.

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 188 Def / 228 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Bullet Seed
- Leech Seed

Ferroseed and Mareanie together form a very strong defensive core, with Ferroseed soaking up Psychic and Electric moves intended for Mareanie, and Mareanie takes Fighting and Fire moves with ease. Spikes puts the pressure on the opposing team, making them think more carefully before switching. Thunder Wave is the bane of Mareanie and Vullaby, making them half as annoying as they could be. Leech Seed works well with Spikes -- stay in and get drained of HP, or switch out and sacrifice a chunk of health from hazards? Bullet Seed stops Sturdy + Berry Juice + Dragon Dance Onix from setting up. Eviolite makes it tankier than ever.

Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Roost

The final member joining the holy trifecta of defense is Vullaby, who works excellently with Ferroseed and Mareanie. It’s so versatile, and so good in the present LC metagame. Neither Mareanie nor Ferroseed can take Ground moves too well, so here’s Vullaby to take them instead. Its weaknesses to Electric, Fairy, and Rock are covered by Ferro, and Ice by Mareanie. Brave Bird gives it a nuke with Timburr’s name written on it. It also does a remarkable job against Grookey, Dewpider, Foongus, and other Pokemon that could otherwise pose a threat to the team. Knock Off is more insurance against annoying Eviolites and Life Orbs. U-turn lets Vullaby pivot in and out safely if need be. Roost allows it to shrug off Brave Bird recoil, and other damage it may have sustained. Overcoat and Eviolite make it bulkier, and therefore more of a threat.

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch

Ah, Timburr. Perhaps the best Fighting type in LC, contested with just Mienfoo. With a wide movepool, and several excellent Abilities, is it any wonder I chose one for the team? Bulk Up makes it even more of a menace than it already is, allowing it to destroy many top threats. Drain Punch is the STAB move of choice, keeping Timburr in the game longer, which means more sweeping. Mach Punch allows me to pick off weakened Pokemon, like those annoying Sturdy Magnemites and Onixes. Thunder Punch absolutely demolishes Mareanie and Vullaby, two of the most prominent defensive threats in the game. It also gives me an easy method of taking out Archen, provided I live long enough to do so. Careful Nature and an Eviolite may seem weird, but they allow Timburr to stay in longer, and the potential Attack loss is compensated for with Bulk Up.

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Psychic

Spritzee works as a very annoying defensive Pokemon, and a potentially devastating attacker. Moonblast is a nice STAB move that allows me to hit quite a few of the Fairy-weak Pokemon in the tier. Psychic slams Mareanie and Foongus hard, which is crucial to a hypothetical victory, as they are both great threats defensively. Wish and Protect is a lovely combination that helps Spritzee stay in the game longer, plus it can aid a team member if the need arises.

Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Memento

This is probably the team member I’m the least sure about, but Ground moves are valuable coverage on any team, and Diglett is one of the better Ground types in LC. Focus Sash all but guarantees it a Hone Claws, and then it can start sweeping with Earthquake and Sucker Punch. If I feel certain I won’t survive after I go down to my Sash, Memento is there to help out against threats like Archen and Grookey.

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Some things I would like considered:

• Should I use Defog on Vullaby? Hazards are pretty annoying for my team, breaking Diglett’s Sash and lowering the Speed of my attackers. On the other hand, all four of Vullaby’s current moves are pretty good, and using Defog would render Ferroseed’s Spikes useless.

• Should I just go with Adamant and Life Orb on Timburr for more damage output? I quite like the current Careful and Eviolite method, but I’m not sure if I should use it or not.

• I’m not quite sure if Diglett is worth a spot on my team. Is it? If not, please suggest a replacement, along with a set.

• And, of course, any general improvements to be had.

Thanks in advance.

Pokepaste

Comments

This team is pretty solid, it worked good in ladder. Sorry if it's a bit late to ask, how much have you laddered with this team and how it went?

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I haven't played with it much in standard random matches, but I got runner-up in a 50-something player tournament with it yesterday. I got slaughtered by DDance HJK Scraggy because of my terrible plays.

Answer 1

Contrary to —Marill4Life—'s answer, I would like to ask about some changes in this team.
Overall, it's pretty OK and can get upto 1400 in ladder, however I suggest a few changes.

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Mareanie

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 196 HP / 20 Def / 92 SpA / 180 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Knock Off
- Haze
- Recover

I asked in LC room for some basic advice, and from that I understand that Haze is a passive choice on it.

AGCL6 Swas: And why mareanie doesn't carry haze much?
+Roldski32: it doesn't beat every sweeper
AGCL6 Swas: And is sludge bomb a generally better option than it?
+Roldski32: yes

From this, I suppose that Haze is not much of a good choice on it.

Haze neutralizes Swords Dance Pawniard and Grookey, stops Shell Smash Shellder in its tracks, doesn’t allow Timburr to sweep with Bulk Up, and prevents Vullaby from getting too many Nasty Plots off.

Haze < Sludge Bomb. Sludge Bomb handles Grookey quite easily, Shellder is also hurt quite a lot especially considering its low Sp.Def.

Cheir: you generally want scald/sludge bomb/recover, so your last move is between knock off/toxic spikes/iron defense/haze/whatever other idea you have but either way, it becomes hard to justify the others over knock/tspikes

Hence, I don't recommend having non-Sludge Bomb and Haze on Mareanie.

I can show some calculations to prove this:

+2 236+ Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 196 HP / 20+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 19-24 (79.1 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 236 Atk Life Orb Grookey Grassy Glide vs. 196 HP / 20+ Def Eviolite Mareanie in Grassy Terrain: 21-25 (87.5 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Hence, even if you want Haze get rid of Knock Off for Sludge Bomb.
New set:

Mareanie @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 HP / 20 Def / 92 SpA / 180 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze
- Sludge Bomb
- Recover

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Ferroseed

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 188 Def / 228 SpD / 36 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Bullet Seed
- Leech Seed

Consider Giga Drain over Bullet Seed. It allows you to damage Onix without activating Weak Armor.
Again, when I asked in LC room one of the decent players told why not to use Leech Seed:

Kipkluif: dont use leech seed in lc, low hp totals get rounded down which means you steal less hp

They recommended Knock Off over Leech Seed. It deals some damage while getting rid of Onix's Berry Juice after which you can Giga Drain it.

New set:

Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 36 Atk / 188 Def / 4 SpA / 228 SpD / 36 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain

The -Spe nature is mostly fine, though.

Kipkluif: its fine
It means youre still slower than things after thunder waving them mostly
but its manageable

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Timburr

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 36 Atk / 156 Def / 236 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch

Careful Nature < Maximum defense. While specially defensive works, a maximum attack set with rest in Defense to take a Brave Bird with Vullaby is much better, according to LC room.
Therefore, I suggest the EVs getting changed.

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Atk / 236 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Thunder Punch

While Life Orb's a good choice, Meowth, Abra, Carvanha, etc. like it more than Timburr.
Rest set is fine.

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Spritzee

Spritzee @ Eviolite
Ability: Aroma Veil
Level: 5
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 212 HP / 196 Def / 12 SpA / 76 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Protect
- Psychic

It's becoming a lot of passive now-a-days, I suggest getting a Onix or Pawniard as a flying-resist to the team, mostly for Vullaby.

kingbaruk: also needs a flying resist
Kipkluif: spritzee tends to be too passive nowadays.
onix maybe
its like that or pawniard if you want ti check vullaby

You also don't have a Stealth Rock setter, which is why I recommend one of them.

Onix @ Eviolite
Level: 5
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion

This is a standard set with a bit of bulk in special defense along with Eviolite to handle Vullaby better. I chose this over Pawniard since it can handle Vullaby as well as resisting Heat Wave, which Pawniard doesn't. It's also your Stealth Rock setter.

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Diglett

Diglett @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Memento

Not sure if this sets work. In my opinion, it won't work, as I'm pretty sure no opponent gives you such chance.

Kipkluif: theres a few, air balloon to trap other diglett
eviolite to live abra psychic and mareanie scald
life orb to just deal more damage
set is usually quake final gambit sucker punch rockslide/beat up

I suggest a Beat Up Air Balloon set, since opposing Diglett can be pretty scary for your own Mareanie. Beat Up is a weird choice, but it OHKOes Abra and being a multi-hit move it bypasses Focus Sash. Abra is something you shouldn't underestimate. It can 2OHKO Vullaby, and hurt your team a lot. Hence, I suggest using this set:

Diglett @ Air Balloon
Ability: Arena Trap
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Beat Up
- Sucker Punch

Earthquake is STAB. Rock Slide hits Vullaby hard. Sucker Punch for faster Scarfers while Beat Up as already told above for Abra. Air Balloon is weird, but it allows to deal with opposing Diglett.

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Vullaby

Set is mostly fine, but I recommend Berry Juice and Defog. Stealth Rock really chips your team, hence you need a Defogger. Here's the standard set:

Vullaby @ Berry Juice
Ability: Weak Armor
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

This set is mostly for pivoting. The defense helps more than Sp.Def because you can take like Timburr and Mienfoo's fighting-STABs.

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That's all, and pretty long. Sorry if it's boring to read.

Final team

Shout-outs to Cheir and Kipkluif for their incredible helping nature, I couldn't have rate this team without their advice!

Comments

Thank you! That was a very well-thought out answer, I appreciate it!

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No problem!

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Iron fist is just better than guts, unless you are running a flame orb with it, and either way, eviolite iron fist is more consistent

Answer 2

Short answer, this team is pretty good.
Explanation:

Mareanie

Mareanie is gonna be the NVP of this team, and it is gonna be massively annoying to deal with. Combined with the rest of your team, you might get some ragequits. There is nothing wrong with Mareanie, and it is a great Pokémon in LC.

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Ferroseed

Combined with Mareanie, this is gonna be a great member of your team. The grass-steel type combo of this Pokémon is great, especially on your team. As for the Defog on your Vullaby, you could role through with it. All the Pokémon on your team can be crippled except Mareanie and Ferroseed, and you might want to have a repellent to that. And the Leech Seed on your Ferroseed and Scald on Mareanie can cripple already.

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Vullaby

This Vullaby is pretty well prepared, and combined with your team, you are gonna stall. However, like I said earlier, your team can be crippled, except Mareanie and Ferroseed. So, I recommend the Defog, because the other members still have moves like Scald, and Leech Seed. So, I recommend rolling with Defog, and selecting another move for Ferroseed.

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Timburr

This looks like a great Pokémon. However, I feel like it should be devoted more to attacking, sense most of your team already can stall hard. A Sheer Force/Eviolite or Guts/Flame Orb Timburr could do the trick. Drain Punch can restore the damage lost from the Flame Orb, if you decide to use that.
But, other then that, it looks good.

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Spritzee

This one is gonna be annoying. Seriously, this is probably the 2nd most annoying Pokémon on your team. And, you could use Wish, switch out to Diglett, the Focus Sash let’s you live, you take the wish, set up hone claws, and then there you go. It also is gonna be good at attacking as well, and that makes it very annoying.

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Diglett

And finally, Diglett. I think you should keep Diglett, because our of my research, it is the best at doing what it does, and the combo of moves I listed up on Spritzee might make it worth it. It will be a good attacker on your team, and that, combined with the stallers, will make this Diglett a good addition.

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Well, I hope this helped!
Side note: This is my first time rating a team, so if the advice I am giving you is really bad, I am sorry.

Comments

Thanks for your answer! However, a couple things. I feel like it's kind of repeating what I've already established? I'm not sure if that was intentional, but you say things like "There is nothing wrong with Mareanie, and it is a great Pokémon in LC." and "And the Leech Seed on your Ferroseed and Scald on Mareanie can cripple already." This probably wasn't intentional, I'm sure, but I don't think it really added anything? I can't be choosy when asking for a team rate though, and you did give me some solid advice, so thanks!

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Thanks for selecting this as BA, and I am sorry for repeating myself. I do it a lot IRL, and it must have transferred over to here. But I am glad it was good advice!

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I selected Swastik's answer because it was a bit more helpful, but I gave you an upvote for your efforts. Thanks again! :)

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Oh yeah, that is fine!