Can anybody breakdown an explanation for EVs in gen 3?

Question

Hello all, I just want some explanations on the things that I thought would happen with EVs, but apparently not. I'm assuming I'm going on my own misconceptions here which is why I am more or less clueless on the subject.

If possible could somebody kindly respond to each point and clarify if each of the following is true or false:

4 EVs gained of a stat will increase the level by 1 for that specific stat
Respective EVs can continue to stack where ever 4 EVs gained will result in another stat increase
The EVs of a Pokemon is only gained by defeating that Pokemon and leveling up
The cap on EVs for a stat is 255
The cap on EVs for a Pokemon is 510
When EVs for the cap on a Pokemon is reached you will automatically gain a ribbon
Only when a Pokemon has reached level 100 will have the gain in EVs reflect the gain in stats. So if they have defeated 20 Swablu, they should definitely see an increase of at least see a gain of +4 in Special Def along with whatever else was to be increased along with it.
All EV stats increased are automatically tabulated along with the Pokemon's level up.

Hopefully you can see that some of the statements made seem to be inconsistent with one another let alone the games themselves. But sadly, this is what my current perception of the reality is for me regarding this subject at the moment.

The main issue I'm having is really not getting "my EVs worth" when seeing my stat level increases and I'm there just wondering why!

Thankyou for whoever knows enough about generation III to answer my question. Although it seems the EV system hasn't changed after but I only play generation III so I wouldn't know about it.

Answer 1

• 4 EVs gained of a stat will increase the level by 1 for that specific stat
  That is correct for a level 100 Pokemon. The number is larger for lower levelled Pokemon (you can find the exact number with this equation: 400 / Pokemon level). This is to prevent Pokemon from becoming overpowered earlier in the game.

What level is the Pokemon you are EV training? If it is not around level 70 - 100, you won't see many of the results. The more you level it up, the hard work you did when your Pokemon was in its lower levels will begin to become visible.

• Respective EVs can continue to stack where ever 4 EVs gained will result in another stat increase
  That is correct, although as stated before you will require more EVs to get a stat increase if the Pokemon is at a level lower than 100.

• The EVs of a Pokemon is only gained by defeating that Pokemon and leveling up
  Yes, but you gain the EVs regardless of whether the Pokemon levels up or not.

• The cap on EVs for a stat is 255
  Correct. However, competitive battlers (using level 100s) only use 252 EVs per stat, since there are 3 remaining EVs that are useless on that stat since 255 is not a multiple of 4.

• The cap on EVs for a Pokemon is 510
  Correct.

• When EVs for the cap on a Pokemon is reached you will automatically gain a ribbon
  You have to obtain the ribbon from a person actually, but yes, you can only get the ribbon if the Pokemon's EVs are maxed out.

• Only when a Pokemon has reached level 100 will have the gain in EVs reflect the gain in stats.
  They will show at earlier levels (according to the equation shown previously), but you will see the full results at level 100. You won't see all the extra stat points at earlier levels.

• So if they have defeated 20 Swablu, they should definitely see an increase of at least see a gain of +4 in Special Def along with whatever else was to be increased along with it.
  Correct.

• All EV stats increased are automatically tabulated along with the Pokemon's level up.
  Yes, however the use of any of the Vitamins will have an automatic effect (same goes for any of the Wings in Gen 5).

Hopefully that wasn't too hard to understand. ;)

The only time EVs have ever changed is the jump from Gen 2 to Gen 3; EVs work the same in Gens 3, 4 and 5.

Comments

"4 EVs gained of a stat will increase the level by 1 for that specific stat"
Okay this is new to me I was actually training my Graveler to level 100 whilst raising its special defence. The thing is it only gained +1 every time it leveled up which led me to believe that something wasn't right because I placed the emphasis on training by battling with pokemon that provide the EVs.

"The EVs of a Pokemon is only gained by defeating that Pokemon and
   leveling up"
Wait, what? Are you saying that I get an EV every battle. Doesn't this mean the cap is reached a lot sooner than I thought? I.E every battle as opposed to the "leveling up" battle?

"When EVs for the cap on a Pokemon is reached you will automatically gain a ribbon"
That's interesting. I solved the mystery by looking under my pokenav.

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Graveler naturally has low Special Defence (at level 100 it has a max of 207 with a boosting nature, 31 IVs and 252 EVs), so the low SDef gain while EV training in in that stat is pretty normal. If your Graveler does not have 31 IVs in SDef or a boosting Nature, it is unlikely that its Special Defence will be very high.

With the second thing, yes, you do receive EVs from every Pokemon you defeat. However, the EVs you gain via the battle will not increase until you level up. Say I had a level 99 Alakazam that defeated 20 Buizels, which means it gained 20 Speed EVs. Alakazam did not level up while defeating the Buizels. However, when Alakazam DOES level up, it will gain at least 5 Speed points (assuming its Speed stat was not already maxed out).

This is because the stat points a Pokemon gets from the EVs it got will not be added to the Pokemon until it levels up.

I'm pretty sure you get the Effort Ribbon from somebody in Slateport City, so this one is a little weird. Maybe you got the Ribbon and forgot about it?

Sorry for the late response.

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On the first point, I am aware Graveler has low Special Defence naturally and this is why I wanted to train it. Without taking it's "nature" and "IVs" into account I still expected it to reach ~150  Special Defence but instead it actually has 102 at level 100. I didn't expect it to be "high" or "maxed" I just wanted it to be a lot higher. You see this is practically my first pokemon to actually be trained under the intention of utilising EVs. It was more or less a trial to see if I was capable of training a pokemon to have a higher stat under my own influence of whom I choose it to battle. It seems that EVs is part of the answer but I believe I'm not "doing it right"

On the second point, well maybe I need to put it in perspective and please correct me if I'm wrong. If I were to battle 255 level 3 Wurmple all giving 23 xp each I will get 5865 xp altogether but based on what you said I will get 255 (HP) EVs too at level Up. And then say I was to battle 255 Poochyena giving 11xp each so accumulating 2805 overall, I will get 255 attack EVs too. That overall meets 510 for EVs. The thing is, I deliberately chose low xp yielding pokemon to illustrate the fact that I can cap very early if I train (unwisely?) with pokemon that yield low xp relative to my pokemon's level for a level up! I guess this would probably make rare candies a viable solution to control the experience inflation.

As for the final point, I think it is. I thought I obtained a ribbon (automatically) because I capped EVs. But I now know the ribbon was awarded for me for another feat as proven by my pokenav.

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With the first point, it kinda depends on how many EVs you got in the stat. If you don't have a boosting nature in SDef, you've lost 10% of the maximum number and a further 31 points if Graveler has 0 SDef IVs. So my only explanation is that you haven't EV trainer in the stat up to the max (255, but only 252 are effective), or your Graveler has a decreasing nature in SDef meaning you lose 20% more stat points compared to a boosting nature. I'll look into this when I have more time.

The second point is correct. Say Wurmple  gives you 1 HP point per each one defeated, and you defeated 255 of them. Even with the exp points you gained from the many Wurmple you defeated, you did not level up. When you do level up, however, and you were at level 99, you should gain at least 63 HP points when you level up (assuming your current total EV count is at 355 or under and you haven't gotten any HP EVs yet). The chances of you getting more than 63 are left to IVs and Nature.
So yeah, you are correct; it is possible to completely max out your EVs in just one level. Usually I speed up the process with the use of Vitamins which can give you a head start of 100 EVs.

Again, sorry for the late response. Kinda busy lately, so my access to the site is pretty limited. Let me know via my wall if I forget to check back here again.

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On the first point, I understand all of that but I think you're still missing the key element to my concern. My Graveler has been trained to level 100 yet has relatively low Sp Def even after I specifically fought Special Defence EV yielding pokemon. I want to also add that I have not used rare candy which means each and every level was gained through xp. I want to also add that I trained my Graveler in this way post level 50ish.

My Graveler actually has an impish nature funnily enough, and according to what I have read, the nature would mean I lose 10% growth increase in Special Attack. My Graveler's Special Attack is actually 152 which is a lot higher than my Special Defence of 102. And this is strange since they both share the same base stat of 45. The point here being that Graveler's nature isn't the issue.

Another thing I wanted to note to you about the first point is actually what was supposed to be explained to you in the second point. You seem to think that the EV's of my Graveler's Special Defence isn't maxed. It may well not be maxed, I don't know, I don't even know how to tell. But I'm betting that if it isn't maxed that would mean other EVs have been distributed elsewhere meeting the 510 cap. And if it is maxed then I'll be betting that it was maxed way too early. Meaning that I don't get a significant gain in stats. In theory it would be best to gain all EVs in the later levels of a pokemon if possible the latest (99) so that the stat gain is high, am I correct?

By this I mean if I did  defeat 255 Poochyena gained 255 EVs in Attack and 2805 xp along with it at level 34. Once I get to level 35 I would only advance 23 Attack. Whereas if the same was done at level 75 when at level 76 I would advance 51 Attack. And if this were all done at level 99 I would advance 63 Attack at level 100. I've worked this out with the formula you had given. Am I correct?

My guess as to why Graveler has such low Special Defence is because the my 510 EVs have been used up.

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You pretty much got it right. You probably used a good amount of your EVs in your lower levels, meaning Graveler's Special Defence didn't have much of an increase. But the fact Graveler has an Impish nature and it's SAtk is higher than its SDef is definitely curious. Graveler likely has high IVs (and maybe a few spare EVs?) in SAtk.

Also, you almost have the formula right. There is no disadvantage to EV training when a Pokemon has a low level; the stat just don't pack on immediately (so Pokemon don't go overpowered too early in the game). If you were to max out your EVs at a low level, you might only see a very small gain of points in the stats you've trained; however, as you level up, you will gradually get those stat points, and at level 100, it would have made no difference at all.

But yeah, your Graveler's strange stats are probably caused by hidden mechanics like IVs (which can't be accurately checked) are a few stray EVs Graveler might have picked up.

My apologies for being late again. I'll try my best to check back here often. I think the site may be experiencing a glitch, since I can't seem to find this thread via My Updates when you comment on it, so that makes it a little harder to remember to respond.

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I was confident I had everything down until I read your latest response. What do you mean by there is no disadvantage? I used the same formula you provided...

Formula aside, I was primarily trying to point out that if you gain all your EVs (255) for one stat between only one level interval at an relatively earlier leveling stage, say 67, you will be left with less of a stat increase (from the EVs) than you would if you were to level up at 100. Or so I thought...?

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When I say there's no disadvantage, I mean that there is not disadvantage in training at lower level. Remember the formula I gave you? Basically, the answer is how many EVs you need to the stat to increase when your Pokemon is at that level. If I started training at level 5 (meaning I'd need 80 EVs for at stat point to increase. However, if you keep levelling up, this number will be smaller, and a level 100, you only need 4 EVs to get the stat increase, which means the 80 EVs you got at level 5 is worth 20 EVs as it would be if you got the 80 EVs at level 100. This means it just takes time for the stat points to pack on.

With the second point, you are correct actually. But when you are at level 100, it would not have even mattered what level you trained at; level 67 or level 5 would make no difference as a level 100.

Hopefully this wasn't too hard to understand, EVs can be quite annoying to describe.

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I do agree with what you have said but you are answering me without taking into full consideration what I am saying. The thing is, I am directly stating a few things. Firstly when using your formula, it dictates pokemon of lower level require more EVs to increase a stat interval than the pokemon with higher levels. Secondly once it's capped there cannot be anymore stat increase (using EVs) therefore if you were to stack 255 speed EVs at level 40 somehow, you wouldn't be able to get anymore speed EVs at level 41. Using the formula will indicate how many speed EVs will be required to increase an extra interval of the speed stat.

So if we take thoes two points into consideration then I can only deduce if you were to get capped at an earlier level the increase in a stat would have to be lower becuase the the formula says so. Hence getting to level 100 will yield a far lower stat increase with EVs  being capped at a relatively lower level like 40 than getting to level 99 and gaining the full 255 EVs right before leveling to 100. Point in case, there is a difference.

It appears to me that you are suggesting that there is no difference at a lower level because there isn't a cap yet. I especially believe this is the perspective you are presenting since you mention the levels increasing so the number of EVs needed decreasing. But honestly I am not thinking of "levels" *increasing* I am thinking of "xp" increasing *whilst* level remaining *the same*. Since xp gain indicates you have defeated a pokemon this would also indicate another EV gain. This doesn't at all mean that the level of the pokemon that gains the xp is close to increasing it's level though. It would mean it is *closer* but that is the only *definite* deduction.

That much is obvious but if you take into account battling 255 of the same pokemon and defeating them all 255 times and gaining all 255 EVs but are still yet to level up your pokemon from the initial level of 40. Then the pokemon remains at level 40!

So again, I state once accumulating all 255 EVs at a relatively earlier level for a certain pokemon yields less of a stat increase (as shown in the formula) than than if the 255 EVs were to be gained at a relatively higher level.

That is of course unless I have missed out something that shows otherwise.

Sorry this response is waaaaay overdue I kind of don't know if you'd think it's worth responding to now

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You've almost got it. Sorry my last comment was a bit vague and didn't answer the question well, I was kinda tired that night.

Anyway, you have the EV cap at the lower level right; the thing you don't seem to understand is this:

If you get all your EV points at level 40 (let's say in a basic 255 Attack and 255 Special Attack spread), then you'd need 10 EVs points to get the stat point according to the equation, thus meaning you'd get 25 points in Attack from the EVs and 25 in Special Attack as well. However, when you level up, the number of EVs required for a stat increase lowers.

The thing you don't seem to understand is: the number (10) that, with 255 EVs in the two stats, caused you to get 25 stat points in your offensive stats will lower, meaning the 255 will be worth more when you level up. From what you said you seem to think that the number stays at 25, but this is the area where you are wrong.

For example:

At level 5, you need 80 EV points to get the stat increase. If you reach the cap of 510 at this level, you would only have accumulated 6 stat points overall. However, the number of 6 increases.

At level 20, those 510 EVs you got back at level 5 would not be worth 6 stat points anymore. According to the equation, a level 20 reqires 20 EVs in the stat to get the increase, thus meaning the 510 you earned at level 5 would be worth 25 stat points (with 10 EV points extra that aren't worth anything due to not reaching the number of 20).

This continues as you level up; the amount of points you got from the training at the lower level according to the equation does not "freeze".

I probably missed a question on something there, if you have anymore queries (likely, I'm bad at explaining things), do comment agin. I'll continue to try to answer at the best of my ability.