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Staraptor or Talonflame?

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What Pokemon is better? Staraptor or Talonflame? Please include your reasons and if you can, good movesets for the Pokemon.

Thanks-
MightyMudkip :)

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2 Answers

10 votes
 
Best answer

Here are the comparisons:


Staraptor:

Pros:

>1. A powerful base attack of 120
2. A passable speed stat of 100
3. Two great abilities in Intimidate and Reckless
3. With Reckless, and the perfect movepool to abuse the ability, it has absurd power
4. Immunity to Ghost and Ground types gives it a switch initiative
5. Amazing Pokemon on with a Choice Scarf
6. Gets Close Combat for coverage

Cons:

>1. Horrifyingly frail
2. Base Speed of 100 just about misses outspeeding key Pokemon, like Terrakion and Garchomp (who also commonly have a scarf)
3. More damage it does, the more it receives in recoil from Brave Bird, and usually dies very quick. This is further compounded by lack of recovery and Reckless
4. Quite predictable, and very one dimensional in it's job.
5. Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp, two common moves, completely shut it down

The most viable moveset I can think of:

Staraptor @Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Moves:
Brave Bird
Double Edge
U-Turn
Close Combat


Talonflame:

Pros:

>1. With Gale Wings, it wields some of the fastest priority ever in Brave Bird and Acrobatics
2. Gale Wings also allow it to Roost before any Pokemon moves, effectively healing recoil
3. With no real need for speed, it can easily equip a Choice Band and run full investment in attack, which makes even base 81 attack look terrifying
4. Checks a lot Pokemon in the metagame
5. Can cripple possible counters with support sets and Will-O-Wisp
6. Flare Blitz and U-Turn are also threatening moves
7. Fantastic revenge killer
8. Gets boosting moves in Bulk Up and Swords Dance
9. Immunity to burn means it can set up more easily
10. Not needing to entirely invest in speed means that it can run support roles as well, with moves including Will-O-Wisp, Tailwind, Roost and Substitute for moves it can choose from.

Cons:

>1. A huge weakness to Stealth Rock
2. Weak to Electric and Water types which are common attacking types
3. Many Pokemon carry coverage moves for it naturally
4. Can't touch some important Pokemon like Rotom-W

There are many viable sets for Talonflame, I'm gonna note down the most common one:

Talonflame @Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 164 Spe / 92 HP
Moves:
Tailwind/Will-O-Wisp
Brave Bird
Flare Blitz
U-Turn


My Opinion:

OK, this answer cannot go without this being unsaid: This two Pokemon are ridiculously similar as far as jobs go. Staraptor has more power to boot, and admittedly can at rare times run a band, which gives it infinitely more power that Talonflame.

However, in my opinon, Talonflame somewhat outclasses Staraptor because:

  1. While Talonflame can still outspeed most Pokemon with a Choice Band, Staraptor cannot. Hence Staraptor suffers from speed loss.

  2. Staraptor usually cannot make room for a healing move due to being commonly outsped, hence it dies of recoil fairly quick. Talonflame on the flip side, can Roost with priority.

  3. Priority can wreck Staraptor many times, but Talonflame has priority and a good base speed of 122, which means it will usually go first.

Hope I helped!

answered by
selected by
Aegislash is banned from OU
Banded Talonflame can't always heal depending on its set
Staraptor is usually scarfed so rarely suffers from speed loss.
"Staraptor is usually scarfed so rarely suffers from speed loss"
That's not the problem, I mentioned Terrakion and Garchomp there as they are also common scarf pokemon that can spoil Staraptor's whole day.
Besides Aegislash, almost anything that counters Talonflame also counters Staraptor (other than T-tar)
While it can't heal depending on the set, it has the option to viable run sets that can right?
That's what I meant, it's something Staraptor will always miss out on.
You would be surprised as to how decreasingly common scarfed terrakion and garchomp have become but I see your point.
Talonflame does have movesets that recquire recovery, but what that being said, Staraptor is a Glass cannon and Talonflame is generally a revenge killer or in rarer cases a set-up sweeper, making them rather parallel to each other, yet similar.
'decreasingly uncommon' Good job xD
Apart from the "Pros" and "Cons" that refer to moves, you'd be surprised how stupidly similar these mons are in those cases.

Saying that Staraptor is Horrifyingly Frail is true, but the same goes for Talonflame, which doesnt make sense, because you're supposed to find the con of what the other pokemon has, or does better. For example, Talonflame is immune to burns, making it easier to set up, while Staraptor is vulnerable to all forms of status.

Also, saying it kills itself from recoil is something both should have. Talonflame mostly uses FBlitz and BB, making it worn down as fast as Staraptor would be. Bad con imo.

As for a Talonflame con, both are weak to Electric (and Staraptor is weak Ice), and both cannot take a common water attack in the tier (Gyarados Waterfall, Keldeo Scald/Pump, Greninja Surf/Pump, Manaphy Scald, Azumarill Waterfall (aqua jet if Belly Drum), etc.) the only moves they could probably take is Alomamola's and Quagsire's scalds, which are piss weak anyways, and the mentioned pokemons both wall the birds 100%.

tl;dr needs better cons
As it was a comparison between them, I purposely avoided some of the common cons they have.

Talonflame DO run support sets as well though, in which case they are not well, very frail. Staraptor on the other hand, is entirely frail, and it can't really do much about it. While Talonflame uses FBlitz and BB, it has means of reliable healing with Roost, while Staraptor can never afford the place for Roost.

As for counters, they have VERY similar counters, which won't count as a point of comparison. PS - Talonflame completely destroys Greninja with Band unless sashed.

As of the other points, I'll and them in :P
8 votes

Staraptor

Staraptor

Pro's:

Excellent Abilities in Intimidate and Reckless -

  • Intimidate lowers the opponent's Attack Stat by 1 Stage.

  • Reckless increases the base power of moves which cause recoil or crash damage by 20%, this is exceptionally good with Brave Bird and Double Edge.

Good Attack and Speed Stats, at 120 and 100 respectively.

Two immunities, to Ghost and Ground respectively.

Two resistances, to Bug and Grass respectively.

Can learn some decent moves such as Close Combat, Steel Wing, Roost, Brave Bird, Double Edge, Quick Attack, U-turn etc.

Doesn't take damage from Spikes, Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes due to it being a Flying type.

Con's:

Three 2x weaknesses, to Electric, Ice and Rock respectively.

Not the best moveset.

Takes 25% damage from Stealth Rock's.

Frail Defense and Special Defense, at 70 and 60 respectively.

Counters:

>Aegislash: Due its great typing, Aegislash is one of the only offensive Pokemon in the game capable of avoiding a 2HKO from any of Staraptor's moves. It also has access to King's Shield, allowing it to deter Staraptor from staying in and attacking it. However, it cannot switch into Choice Band Brave Bird more than two times, especially as it lacks reliable recovery.

>Skarmory: Skarmory is by far the best defensive counter to Staraptor, if not the only one. It cannot be 2HKOed by any of Staraptor's moves and can easily stall it out with Roost.

>Fast Offensive Pokemon: As Staraptor is pitifully frail, the best way to deal with it is often to attack it with a faster Pokemon or ones with priority. Almost any attack will do huge amounts of damage to Staraptor.

>Rocky Helmet, Iron Barbs, and Rough Skin: Staraptor gets worn down incredibly easily, and Pokemon with Rocky Helmet exacerbate this issue by forcing it to take massive amounts of damage when it attacks. Garchomp and Ferrothorn are notable holders as they can use Rocky Helmet in conjunction with their damage-dealing abilities, Rough Skin and Iron Barbs, respectively.


Talonflame

Talonflame

Pro's:

Fantastic Abilities in Flame Body and Gale Wings -

  • When a Pokémon with Flame Body is hit by a move that makes contact, there is a 30% chance that the attacking foe will become burned. Flame Body also halves the number of cycles it takes for an Egg to hatch. Both the Pokémon with Flame Body and the Egg must be in the party in order for this to work.

  • Gale Wings increases the priority of Flying-type moves by one, which is excellent considering Talonflame has access to Brave Bird, Acrobatics, Roost etc.

Good Speed Stat at 126 respectively, moderate Attack Stat of 81.

One immunity, to Ground types respectively.

Six resistances, to Bug, Fairy, Fighting, Fire, Grass and Steel types respectively.

Can learn some good moves such as Flare Blitz, Brave Bird, U-turn, Swords Dance, Roost, Acrobatics, Steel Wing, Quick Attack, Bulk Up, Tailwind etc.

Doesn't take damage from Spikes, Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes due to it being a Flying type.

Con's:

Two 2x weaknesses, to Electric and Water types respectively and one 4x weakness to Rock types.

Not the best moveset.

Takes 50% damage from Stealth Rock's.

Frail HP, Defense and Special Defense Stats, at 78, 71 and 69 respectively.

Counters:

>Physical Defensive Pokémon: Physically defensive Gyarados, Slowbro, Zygarde, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Gliscor, Mandibuzz, Vaporeon, and Krookodile all have excellent physical bulk and take neutral damage from Talonflame's STAB moves, and thus can wall it while Talonflame wears itself out through recoil damage (and takes damage from sandstorm in Hippowdon's case). Some of them can even OHKO it, namely Rock Slide Hippowdon, Gyarados, and Landorus-T.

>Pokemon that resist Talonflame's STABs: Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Rotom-W, Heatran, Rotom-H, Zapdos, and Mega Aerodactyl fall into this category.

>Passive Damage: Stealth Rock is Talonflame's biggest enemy. As long as you manage to keep Stealth Rock on the field, you have managed to keep Talonflame in check. Additionally, because both of Talonflame's STAB moves induce recoil damage, forcing Talonflame to KO or weaken itself is another way to deal with it. The best way to do this is with Rocky Helmet Garchomp, which between a high HP stat, Rough Skin, and its item, causes Talonflame to take tons of recoil damage when it attacks. The fact that Garchomp has enough bulk to take a couple of hits from Talonflame helps too. Ferrothorn, especially with Rocky Helmet, is another Pokemon that can almost KO Talonflame through passive damage alone, though it must sacrifice itself to do so.


Conclusion

I really like both these Pokémon but for me I'd say Talonflame is definitely better imo because of it's Ability Gale Wings, but it all depends what you need in your team.

>Staraptor is one of the best partners to Talonflame, as it has the raw power to easily break through the walls that Talonflame struggles to get past on its own.

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edited by
Ok thanks! :)
You're welcome.