Mr tricky's trick house

Question

Being somebody that likes to use bulky slower pokemon I thought it was time I tried my hand at a trick room team. I took inspeation form other players I've seen use trick room and watch a hell of a lot of trick room guides on YouTube but however I am still unsure about my team, so any help will be taken into account.

Mawile @ Mawilite - probably my favorite mega this year, its not the bulkiest but with the investment into hp and the stats into special defense it deals with anything it isnt super effective.
Ability: Intimidate - the obvious choice for ability.
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpD - full hp investment makes mawile slightly more bulky and harder to knock out and the attack takes advantage of the huge power boost and the special defense means its slightly less frail.
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe - somehow I managed to get a ditto with no speed ivs and a high attack iv so this is why I included this.
- Play Rough - STAB move so I mean why not, however the accuracy does throw me off and make me second guess sometimes.
- Iron Head - again STAB and helps me kill other fairy types.
- Sucker Punch - great for making sure I get the faint on the opponent however is a good counter as it hits hard on pokemon that might be trying to KO me when trick room isnt up.
- Protect - allows me to freely mega evolve, scout out other pokemon and all that good stuff.

Cresselia @ Sitrus Berry - I needed a trick room setter and I mean you just cant ignore the bulk of the space duck
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 96 Def / 188 SpA / 4 SpD - I wanted to make cress bulky against physical attackers and not just special ones in case I get double targeted, also the special attack evs help me hit those pesky landurous leads.
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room - obviously to set my trick room
- Psychic - nice STAB move and also good for dealing with amoongus when people bring it
- Ice Beam - nice bit of coverage
- Helping Hand - helps to power up moves of thy other pokmeon if im not confident ill KO something

Hariyama @ Assault Vest - I picked hariyama cus I like to lead with it and with cress it became my favourite combo
Ability: Guts - This ability actually works out well because the amount of people that dont think and burn him is too damn high
Level: 50
EVs: 64 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 244 SpD - survives most things that hit even super effective moves however sometimes doesnt OHKO pokemon so maybe ill need to change it
Brave Nature
- Fake Out - helps support the trick room
- Close Combat - the best STAB option as kang and hydreigon cant handle it
- Stone Edge - If it hit it OHKOs charizard leads 100% of the time
- Knock Off - nice for disrupting pokemon when they rely on items and also can OHKO certain pokemon

Heatran @ Leftovers - i decided to throw heatran into the mix as its pretty good in trick room against other heatran when trick room is up. mot too sure if i wanna keep the modest nature or if i wanna change it
Ability: Flash Fire - lets me switch into fire moves
Level: 50
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 SpD - kinda the same as the set on mawile but more orientated to attacking
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave - the aim is to set up trick room and blast everything with fire as it hits two targets
- Earth Power - good against opposing heatran and pokemon like camerupt as its weak to ground and usualy wins me a lot of late game battles when trick room is over
- Substitute - helps me to protect myself from things i maybe dont wanna deal with right away and also means its harder to KO
- Protect - standard doubles

(above is my main core however the following pokemon im not sure on)

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge - helps me regain health and i also picked it cus i needed an answer to bulky water types and also lets me sleep foes
Ability: Regenerator - easy pick cus amoongus switches in test battles
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD - i feel this is best as it is bulky in both defense and special defense
Sassy Nature - helps the trick room benefits
- Spore - for support sleeping
- Giga Drain - again with health regeneration and water types
- Protect - standard in doubles
- Rage Powder - nice bit of redirection against certain stuff however i could do with a different move as its very situation based

Sylveon @ Pixie Plate - i really like sylveon but however im not sure if its the right Pokemon set wise for trick room so i could use help with tweaking
Ability: Pixilate - i much prefer it to life orb and choice specs as for me it allows syleon more time in the battle and more freedom in battle as im not locked into a move
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA - just a standard set which works in and out of trick room as I'm still unsure whether i should dedicate myself to the trick room
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice - STAB and hits both pokemon
- Psyshock - nice bit of coverage and also hits weaker grass pokemon or poison and fighting
- Shadow Ball - again for coverage and also psychic types
- Protect - doubles standard

so yeah thats my trick room team, all help would be wonderful as i kinda wanna make it work for competition play.

Thank you in advance ^.^

Comments

I would rather have you change the formatting on this, because even though I edited it it's still pretty crowded.

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Since no one  has answered this and it has been up for a while, do you mind if I rate this sometime soon AtomicPenguin?

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sure thing go for it :D

Answer 1

I’ll give this a rate and it should not be too long since there aren't going to be any major changes to the team, I will try and keep it as close to your original team as I can. I don’t think that any pokemon need replacing as it seems like a solid team with not too many serious weaknesses, but moves and EV spreads can do with some tweaking. All the changes I am going to make are by my opinion and you don’t need to feel that you have to agree with me if you have had success with your previous EV spreads/moves. Changes will be in bold.

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@ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate ---> Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 204 Atk / 76 SpD
Brave Nature (-Spe, + Atk)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Mawile got a tweak in the EV spread so that it can survive max special attack Heatran’s heat wave, as well as making the most of each EV/stat point by giving it an even attack stat for Huge Power. Very similar to your original EV spread. I then replaced sucker punch with rock slide because your team does not have a very good match up against Charizard-Y and can’t hit it for much damage except stone edge from Hariyama. Under trick room you also get the flinch chance which can be critical in some situations.

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@ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 224 HP / 60 Def / 188 SpA / 36 SpD
Calm/Sassy Nature (- Atk/Spe, +SpD)
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Helping Hand

I noticed that your team works much better with trick room up, rather than some semi-trick room teams that work just as well without trick room. So because of that I gave it a mental herb to stop those annoying taunts and guarantee trick room set up in most situations. I also gave Cresselia’s EV spread more purpose, everything it does is outlined here. If you can’t get your hands on a calm/sassy cress then you can use your original spread but put the 4 SpD EVs into Defense, it makes the most of every point you have.

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@ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 140 HP / 228 Atk / 76 Def / 60 SpD / 4 SpA ←(These 4 EVs are wasted)
Brave Nature (-Spe, +Atk)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

The moves themselves needed no changing since they work nicely with your team, but I did give it a new, more offencive, EV spread that I made a few months ago. Here are some calcs of what it can do:
Offensive:

• 228+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Heatran: 198-234 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 228+ Atk Hariyama Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 210-248 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Defensive:

• 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 140 HP / 60 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 200-236 (84.3 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 140 HP / 76 Def Hariyama: 200-236 (84.3 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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@ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 212 HP / 252 SpA / 44 SpD
Modest Nature (-Atk, +SpA)
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Heatran seems fine as it is really, although I slightly tweaked the EV spread since 212 HP EVs helps to get the most out of leftovers recovery. If you ever want to use leftovers/black sludge on a pokemon then make their HP stat 16n+1 (+1 of a multiple of 16). I was also thinking that you could change substitute into another attack. Such as maybe ancient power to help your charizard weakness, or flash cannon for extra STAB for fairy's and dragon's, or maybe even flamethrower for a 100% accurate fire type move.This is because you want to make the most out of your four trick room turns. If you do decide to do this then I suggest you switch out leftovers, max out your HP EVs, and let Heatran hold safety goggles to deal with opposing Amoonguss. As for the nature, modest should be fine but if you can get a min speed quiet Heatran then use it.

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@ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 204 HP / 148 Def / 156 SpD
Sassy Nature (-Spe, +SpD)
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect
- Giga Drain

Honestly, I don’t know why more people aren’t using situs berry on amoonguss, it’s a bulky redirection pokemon isn’t it? Anyway, I gave your teams berry to make friends with the mushroom for extra longevity on the field. A ‘fast’ spore is very threatening under trick room, and also it will be able to redirect more moves. I also tweaked the EV spread from the same team that my Hariyama was on, here are calcs of what this can do:

• 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 204 HP / 148 Def Amoonguss: 180-214 (83.7 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 4+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Heat Wave vs. 204 HP / 156+ SpD Amoonguss in Sun: 182-216 (84.6 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (Most Charizards nowadays are more focused into bulk, so there are lots of modest 4 SpA ones)

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@ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature (-Spe, + SpA)
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power (Ground)

I know it’s going to be hard but try and get hidden power ground on your Sylveon because your team has a bad and unfavorable matchup against Heatran. I also gave it choice specs to KO, or at least do very big damage, to the fire/steel type just mentioned. The specs also does more damage than the pixie plate with all your moves, and with a trick room up you want to make the most of your four turns by doing the highest damage possible. If you can, getting a quiet nature would help you out, as well as 0 Spe IVs. Well, all your pokemon should have speed decreasing natures and 0 Spe EVs if you can.

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So those are my possible improvements to the team, if you don’t agree with any of them that’s completely fine and you can carry on using your original team if you are having success with it.

Most of the improvements I have done are about EV spreads, I think that you’re good at building teams, although you need to watch out for some pokemon which your team has bad matchups against and recognise them as a threat.

I think that you need to learn more about the EV mechniques, as you were wasting a few EVs on your pokemon when it could have been avoided, one more stat point can change the course of a battle. Learning to make purposeful EV spreads which fulfil certain roles is also a skill to learn, rather than just adding some random Def/SpD if you want some bulk. If you want to do that I suggest adding enough Atk/SpA to OHKO/2HKO certain pokemon then adding the rest in bulk.

You can use the damage calculator to make your own EV spreads and to see if you are wasting any points.

Hope This Helps.

Zorua0

Comments

Thanks for the review I will defo take this into account, are there perhaps other pokemon you can suggest in case i cant get certain hidden powers or ones that would be better over others interms of countering heatran and charizard? I was also thinking wouldn't it be better to invest the left over 4 on haryiama into something better like a defensive stat? also I dont have much of a problem with taunters but ill take the mental herb into account

ones again thank you very much for the review it means a lot

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I'm thinking an assault vest Landorus-T can replace Sylveon, has strong spread attacks and with assault vest it can take a good number of heat waves (unless you get that 10% burn chance though, has happened to my M-Salamence twice today!). Rock slide kills Charizard and earthquke does the same to Heatran. Although keep in mind that those two fire types can be EV'd to survive those attacks (Shuca Berry on Heatran). But the attacks will always be doing big damage to them. It also gives you double intimidate which will be useful.

As for the 4 SpA EVs on Hariyama, go on the damage calc and try the above spread, then put the extra 4 EVs into any other stat, you will see that the actual stat isn't going to change. I just put it in SpA to signify this.

If you want to use Lando-T, try messing around with the damage calc to see if you can survive 3 of Charizard heat waves, or 4 of Heatrans. Also, try and use the least amount of EV's possible to accomplish this, so maybe put more in SpD and less in HP, or vice versa.

For Cresselia, if your not having any problems with taunters since you have fake out, you can always give it back the berry, rocky helmet is a useful item on it too. Amoonguss can also make good use of the helmet (Not at the same time as Cress though).

On a side note, could you possibly rate this as best answer (The green tick on the top right of the answer). I don't mean to sound like I answered this just for the BA and the points, but it gets annoying when my answers/comments get posted a day after I have written them because they have to be check and approved. You don't have to if you don't want to, but it would help me.

 Also, if you do do another RMT, it would be helpful for other players if you formatted your page like this: http://pokemondb.net/pokebase/rmt/40612/vgc15-presents-the-talonflame-tailwind-team
You don't need to add any images, but the descriptions under the moveset makes it look much clearer.

Anyway, I'm happy to help and ask if you need anything else :)

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Thanks for the BA! Hope I've helped to improve your team :)