Why is ditto in the (PU) tier?

Question

It's a great reverse sweeper and can almost always get you out of a sticky getting sweeped by opponent situation. It gives a lot of pressure on opponent to not set up. So why should it be ZU and not some higher tier?

Comments

Set-up sweeper aren't that many in lower tiers. Ditto is only good against Hyper Offense. A lot of factors worsen its match-up against stall and other fatter teams.

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You'll probably get a better answer if you ask here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/ask-a-simple-question-get-a-simple-answer-pu-edition.3660662/

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Because Pokemon with priority moves such as Shadow Sneak or Extreme Speed may be able to OHKO or heavily damage Ditto before getting revenge killed.

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"I mean the simple answer is because no one uses it.
It's viable in every tier to revenge kill set up sweepers, but equally if tiers are actually well balanced there should be other pokemon that can do that and not risk being dead weight elsewhere."
Somebody answered this. If you feel its enough then I will answer or probably wait for somebody to answer with more detail.

Answer 1

It's in pu because of usage. With the exception of the uber and ag tier, most Pokemon are ranked based on their usage in a specific tier, rising and falling if they fail or surpass a cutoff percentage

In Ditto's case, it is a viable choice in nearly all of the tiers. The problem is, it is far too specific. It is mainly used as a revenge killer or to win pp wars and not every team is gonna need something like that. As such, it probably gets very little usage due to how specific it is

That doesn't mean that it's a bad Pokemon. It just means that it's very difficult to slap on teams unlike Landorus Therian or something

Comments

I mean I know that it's pu because of usage. Being far too specific doesn't matter. Blissey and few stall Pokémon are also specific. This isn't a bad answer but I need a more elaborated answer.

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If you mean Blissey and friends like Skarmory or Toxapex, it's because they're not that specific that only stall teams use them. Blissey walls most special hits while Skarmory has a lot of utility moves and Toxapex is Toxapex. Take Shedinja for example. It is a fellow untiered pokemon but has a very specific niche in stall teams

And being too specific actually matters because something that specific will only be used if it's talents are needed. If something else can do that niche while being able to do other stuff, why would one ever use the very specific one?

Or to be precise, the level of specific that Ditto has is far too much when compared to other specific mons like Blissey. The blob has a lot more to offer than being a special wall such as a negative priority switch move, status and even stealth rock

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Ohh ok nice. +1

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As this was answered b4 it can be BA.

Answer 2

Somebody from Smogon forums answered the first part of why Ditto in PU:

I mean the simple answer is because no one uses it.
It's viable in every tier to revenge kill set up sweepers, but equally if tiers are actually well balanced there should be other Pokemon that can do that and not risk being dead weight elsewhere.

Source

It's a great reverse sweeper and can almost always get you out of a sticky getting sweeped by opponent situation. It gives a lot of pressure on opponent to not set up.

While indeed it is a great reverse sweeper, there are other Pokemon can handle set-up sweepers along with the ability to handle something else, and not being useless on non-set up teams or bulky offense, stall, balance, etc.
You can compare Zacian-Crowned's counters Quagsire and Necrozma-Dusk-Mane in same way. While the former is better able to handle due to it not being beaten by Swords Dance or Assurance, compare Quagsire's role in different case. Let's say opponent doesn't have Zacian-Crowned. Then, Quagsire is practically useless in your team. On the other hand, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane can do good against Xerneas, and able to set-up Stealth rocks which means its viability outside of countering Zacian-Crowned is solid, unlike Quagsire. Similarly, there are other options that can handle set-up sweepers but not being useless in other cases as compared to Ditto. The user that answered it told similarly, "there should be other Pokemon that can do that and not risk being dead weight elsewhere."

So why should it be ZU and not some higher tier?

It is ZU as already told above, it doesn't get enough usage. As Demon Hunter already explained, Ditto's role is being limited as a revenge killer, and not being able to do anything good outside of it, as Ditto's reliability on Choice Scarf locks it into one move, and not copying opponent's HP stat and its own HP being very low isn't good.

Hope this helps!

Comments

So what else can handle set up sweepers and not be dead weight elsewhere?

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Bruh there are always defensive counterplays for all set-up Pokemon other than Ditto except possibly Mega-Ray (which might be why it's AG). Tell what Pokemon specifically.

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SD Zac and nasty plot caly

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Quagsire beats SD Sword Dog, and Dusk Mane Necro can do too if it chose to Dynamax. Nasty Plot Calyrex-S likes to have Focus Sash so if you have something like only Ditto as your speed control you're doomed. Yveltal can handle it pretty much, and you don't need to worry in Ubers since Calyrex likes Choice Scarf and Specs more than Nasty Plot Focus Sash. Using Ditto over these defensive options may always not help, as not every team may have those two. If your opponent's team is mostly defensive then well Ditto is useless 9/10 of the time. Ditto's very poorly match up against stall makes it considerably lower tier.

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Ok thanks!

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+1 for you