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I’ve tried and failed to calculate the minimum speed EVs required for modest Espathra to outspeed a Jolly, max Speed Sneasler.

The trick is that Espathra is able to gain a +1 speed boost after one turn of protect. Can anyone show me the math for Pokemon champions?

Espathra
Sneasler

EDIT: Thanks to @R-The-Great for this answer:

Espathra needs 2 speed EVs and +1 speed boost to counter Sneasler.
If Sneasler has unburden and loses an item, then you need either:
-> 2 speed EVs and +4 speed boosts or
-> 27 speed EVs and +3 speed boosts.

The second option works out quite well to hard counter sneasler. Look at this example 1v1 with 27 speed EVs and a focus sash against sneasler with a focus sash:
Turn 1: Use protect (sneasler uses fake out)
Turn 2: Use lumina crash to break sash (sneasler attacks and breaks your own focus sash)
Turn 3: Use protect
Turn 4: KO unburdened sneasler with a faster lumina crash
Turn 5: baton pass +4 speed boosts to a lucky tank.

Math
Max speed Sneasler
( 140 base + 32 speed EVs ) x 1.10% from Jolly nature = 189 speed.
189 speed x 2 from Unburden = 378 speed.

To beat that, give Espathra 2 EVs in speed and +4 speed boosts.
( 125 base + 2 Speed EVs ) = 127 speed
+1 speed: 127 x 1.5 = 190.5
+2 speed: 127 x 2 = 254
+3 speed: 127 x 2.5 = 317.5
+4 speed: 127 x 3 = 381

OR

Win 1 turn sooner with 27 EVs in speed and +3 speed boosts.
( 125 base + 27 Speed EVs) = 152 speed
+1 speed: 152 x 1.5 = 228 speed
+2 speed: 152 x 2 = 304 speed
+3 speed: 152 x 2.5 = 380

Any more EVs into speed are wasted. For example, max speed Espathra
( 125 base + 32 speed EVs ) x 1.1 from nature = 172 speed
+2 speed: 172 x 2 = 345 (not enough to beat 378 sneasler)

ago by
edited ago by
Showdown's teambuilder https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/teambuilder and calc https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/ makes this easy to find, for future reference
Thanks for the links! Great resources

1 Answer

2 votes
 
Best answer

You need 2 speed Sps.

Math
1.5 (Boost from speed boost)
125 (Uninvested Espartha speed )
125 X 1.5 =187.5
Max speed Sneasler has 189 speed

127 (2 Sps in speed on Espartha)
127 X 1.5 =190.5
One points above Sneasler

Source: I’m one of those strange people who enjoy math

ago by
selected ago by
Also add speed boost abillity to get more speed.
Thats what the 1.5 in the equation is
Ah ok then
That was my understanding from the calculators, but their Sneasler’s Close Combat outsped my Espathra’s Lumina Crash even with 4 SPD investment and +1 SPD boost. I thought I might be missing something… (and we all need a Sneasler counter these days).
Could Sneasler have used an item and activated unburden allowing it to outspeed you?
Ah! That is exactly what happened! Unburden doubled his speed. So a max speed Sneasler becomes 378. To counter that, Espartha with 2 SPD requires +4 SPD boosts (127 x 3 = 381) or 4 turns on the field to outspeed.