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Can Cloyster counter Empoleon?

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Kinda a sequel to Shiny Fire's question.
Half the time, I end up with Cloyster as the last Pokemon. The opponent has Empoleon.
Any counters to it? Should I scrap Cloyster entirely?

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Countering Empoleon using Cloyster is hard, there is no way around it.

On the standard Cloyster set (Shell Smash + SKill Link) the best thing it can do is score a 3HKO after a Shell Smash with Rock Blast.

>+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 135-160 (36.2 - 43%) -- approx. 99% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As the other answers have said, there is HP Ground/Electric/Fighting and Mud Shot, but they really aren't viable, and there is no point having a max Special Attack Cloyster just to use them, as it won't be able to deal with much besides Empoleon.

Your best bet is to try to deal with Empoleon before sending Cloyster out. If you don't have a good Empoleon counter on your team, and it is proving to be a large problem for you, then you should probably get one. Any Special Electric or Fighting type should do the trick - Pokemon like Galvantula, Special Lucario, or Mega Ampharos can usually deal with it. Special Attackers are better because they don't care if Scald burns them. On the other hand, Empoleons are usually Specially Defensive for this very reason, but it is a trade-off.

Since I don't know your team, then I can't say whether you should get rid of Cloyster, or if you should get rid of something else on your team,

Personally, I don't find Empoleon to be much of a problem because they usually run a supportive move set, with Stealth Rocks, Roar, Scald, and a coverage move like Flash Cannon or Ice Beam. Since they aren't used as sweepers, they don't usually take out a lot of your Pokemon. But, of course, if it is Cloyster vs Empoleon as the only Pokemon left, then Empoleon is pretty guaranteed to win.

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why the flag?
idk, seems like a good answer 2 me +1
0 votes

Mud Shot is a special-move and has 55 Base Power.
Hidden Power can be Eletric/Fight/Ground, has 60 Base Power and is a special-move.


Now the calculations:

252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Calm Empoleon: 70-84 (18.8 - 22.5%) -- possible 5HKO.

252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Calm Empoleon: 90-106 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO

Now with +2 Sp.Attack (Shell Smash)

+2 252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 140-166 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.

+2 252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Empoleon: 178-210 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

Empoleon with 252 HP / 252 SpD EVs Calm Nature in the 1st test.
Empoleon with 252 HP / 0 SpD EVs Calm Nature in 2nd test.

If you see here, Cloyster only have 2 super-effective moves against Empoleon and they aren't so strong as you see. Without +2 aren't so great, with +2 you can make a 2HKO or 3HKO.


Hope this helps.

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''+2 252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Empoleon: 140-166 (37.6 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.''
''+2 252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Empoleon: 178-210 (47.8 - 56.4%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO''
Except putting 252 SpA in Cloyster isn't worth it just for being able to use Hidden Power.
''+2 252 SpA Cloyster Hidden Power Ground''
That means 252 Sp.A EVs with x2 (1 Shell Smash).
Everyone understands what the calculations mean. Jarjar was just stating that it is ridiculous to even attempt running a Special Cloyster.
A Flash Cannon or Grass Knot from Empoleon is a definite 1-2HKO, your calculations are proving you wrong.