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I have been Showdown! testing my VGC team for Omega Ruby, and I have come across an issue with using Zapdos: without maximum Speed investment, he usually cannot get a Tailwind up before taking 40-60% HP. As I am running a bulkier spread and I like to keep him alive for later in the match once Tailwind peters out. While he does form my TalonTroll core (made that up myself, if you want more info just ask) with Breloom, I feel as though Talonflame would get more chances to setup due to the offensive pressure he provides. I am also considering replacing someone with Rotom-W, so I can keep the Electric coverage of Zapdos. The rest of the team is below.

TL;DR What are the benefits of using Talonflame over Zapdos to setup Tailwind and vice versa?


Here is my team so far:

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[email protected] Focus Sash
Spore / Protect / Mach Punch / Bullet Seed

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[email protected] Safety Goggles
Tailwind / Thunderbolt / HP Ice / Heat Wave

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[email protected] Mawilite
Iron Head / Sucker Punch / Play Rough / Protect

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[email protected] Shuca Berry
Heat Wave / Earth Power / Flash Cannon / Protect

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[email protected] Life Orb
Earth Power / Draco Meteor / Dark Pulse / Protect

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[email protected] Gardevoirite
Psychic / Hyper Voice / Protect / Energy Ball

asked by
Umm, if I may ask, why do you have 2 Mega pokemon? Not trying to be rude or anything...
This is VGC format, where you take 4 of your 6 Pokémon for a Double Battle. On the Showdown! server I believe it is called Battle Spot Doubles. This is the format that all official Pokémon tournaments are played on. It is fine to have two Megas on a team because you can build the rest of the team around them, and you don't have to bring both of them to every match.

It's okay, you aren't being rude :) VGC is hard to wrap one's head around at first.
VGC isn't called Battle Spot Doubles. It's literally called VGC 2015. Also, not all tournaments are played in VGC format.
On Showdown it's called "Battle Spot doubles (VGC 2015)". And I am aware that not every official tourney is done in Doubles, but the vast majority are, so it is simpler just to generalize.
Oh also I think you might wanna consider Psyshock > Psychic on Gardevoir.
I had Psyshock, but after a Thundurus survived with a sliver of HP and bulldozed my team, I switched to Psychic's power.
Hmm true, Psychic does hit harder. Well Blissey isn't a big threat in doubles, so all things considered Psychic is just as well. Also I guess w/ Mawile/ Breloom/ Talonflame in the mix, you're fine.
oh.... i gets it now :D

1 Answer

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Best answer

For most people Talonflame is more effective in doubles than Zapdos, because:

  • priority Tailwind
  • no switching into rocks (as long as you start with it first)
  • priority Roost recovery
  • able to also use Will-O-Wisp after tailwind
  • bulky EV spread means it has better survivability (252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 def), which is desirable as it has flying move priority
  • most likely will not be taunted to due to high base speed (out speeding Sableye)

Zapdos also has no special Flying STAB outside of HP Flying, and with Mega-Venusaur floating around, that's pretty detrimental.

answered by
edited by
you put for evs, "(252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 HP)". you said hp twice.
Oh sorry about the EVs; I meant 4 in defence.

& I also should've specified that I meant special flying move for Zapdos, because you wouldn't put EVs into attack for it considering it only has Wild Charge as a special Electric move.
*it only has wild charge as a physical electric move", you put special.
sorry if i correct to much, i have ocd.
fondant's a little clumsy today :3
Man. I've actually long suspected I have mild dyslexia...