How would the NDAG format accept Grass-Dragon Contrary Serperior +Leaf Storm+Draco Meteor?

Question

This is not an open ended question. Or the start of a list of hypothetical questions regarding modified Pokemon types. I am asking only this question, preferably to someone who understands the National Dex formats a lot more than I do.

If Serperior gained the Dragon type, and was able to get Draco Meteor, on top of it's high Sp.Atk and it's access to Leaf Storm, on top of it's Contrary Hidden Ability, what tier would it rise to in the AG format. Losing its weakness to fire is not that big of a deal as Fire is not relatively a common type in the competitive scene. What new checks would it obtain, and what would be the new Pokemon to counter it.

After reading the rules again this question is ok to be asked.

Comments

If you flag this question please tell me why and tell me where in the rules this question is not allowed.

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Why do you even want to know this? No one could really benefit from knowing this, it's basically a trivia question.

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I feel like it would be better, but not a choice that would see a lot of usage due to its frailness and out sped by mons like Zacian Crowned, Calyrex-Shadow, and Arceus (just to name a few) and it wouldn't do too much to bulky mons like Dusk Mane or specially defensive Arceus/Yveltal. It could easily be revenge killed by Ditto. As for checks, I feel like it could handle some mons like Primal Kyogre, some Arceus forms, maybe Primal Groudon. It could take out Adamant Mray if it's not scarfed or sash ddance but it can't handle Jolly. Overall I feel like it would be okayish, but there are better choices and it could struggle with the bulkier and faster mons in the tier. (This is just what I think tho)

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@SpookyTerrain, if Serperior were to gain a second type it would most likely be the dragon type. I just thought that the ability to use Draco Meteor as well as Leaf Storm again and again and get stronger every time would be kind of broken

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A dragon type Serperior would be even easier to revenge-kill whenever the opponent has a Zacian, which is almost always.

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I'm flagging this because it seems too speculative and open to be permitted.  I'll let another staff member deal with it though, as I'm not entirely sure.

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X, I read the rules thoroughly and there was nothing in there about asking hypothetical questions. This isn't open ended, it's just like asking How viable is Serperior in National Dex AG but with another factor

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The thing is, that other factor could change the answer drastically. And because it *doesn't* have that other factor yet, there's no way to answer definitely, and as such, I think it's discussion-based. That's why I flagged it instead of closing it though -- I'm not entirely sure :P

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It doesn't change any stats or anything else other than Dragon type and Draco Meteor

Answer 1

I’m not sure if this breaks the rules or not, but I’ll go ahead and answer.

It wouldn’t be that great.

Let’s take a look at it’s matchup against some of NatDex AG’s top threats.
(All calculations give Serperior the Dragon typing, so it gets STAB)
Calyrex-Shadow
An incredibly potent sweeper in the metagame. It’s speed is higher than Serperior’s, and it’s special attack….
252 SpA Life Orb Calyrex-Shadow Astral Barrage vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 320-376 (109.9 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Pretty high.
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Calyrex-Shadow: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And here’s a display of how Serperior’s SpA…isn’t great. Even with specs and STAB.

Yveltal
Another huge threat in the metagame. Runs Specially Defensive, Physically Offensive, or Specially Offensive sets. Isn’t quite as fast as Serperior….
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Yveltal: 250-295 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Yveltal: 160-190 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

But can take a hit regardless. But can it hit back hard enough?

252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 398-468 (136.7 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Offensive Yveltal can.

0 Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 184-217 (63.2 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

SpD doesn’t quite OHKO, but does a large amount of damage, and gets rid of your item. It also has U-Turn which does ~50% and lets you switch out to something like Ditto or Calyrex-Shadow that can outspeed it and take it out.

Zacian-Crowned
Outspeeds, immune to Dragon, resistant to Grass, OHKOs with behemoth blade. Enough said.

Arceus-Ground
Groundceus’s physical attacking set can OHKO if it has Jolly, as it runs Ice Beam as coverage despite being mostly physical for Zygarde. Physically Defensive also runs ice beam, but serperior is faster. It should OHKO with a specs super effective STAB Leaf Storm…right?

252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 378-446 (85.1 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Not always. Usually not, in fact. As for Ice Beam, that OHKOs.

Necrozma-Dusk Mane
A very strong and common Pokémon that is a staple on just about any team, it has amazing bulk and attack. It resists both of Serperior’s STABs, and it’s bulk is so incredible that…
+4 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 306-360 (76.8 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It lives a 4+ specs Draco Meteor.
252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Draco Meteor vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 102-121 (28.7 - 34%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO
DD NDM, even with it’s lack of max HP EVs, shrugs off it’s attacks. So let’s take a look at how NDM fairs on offense.
252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 168-198 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty great, huh?

Honorable mentions:
Ditto: takes advantage of boosts, destroys with Draco Meteor
Fairyceus: takes a hit, destroys with Judgement.
Mega Rayquaza: is OHKOd by Draco Meteor if Serperior holds Specs or a Life Orb, but outspeeds and OHKOs if the Rayquaza is Jolly or holds a Choice Scarf.
Eternatus: Offensive sets outspeed and annihilate, defensive sets can take a Draco Meteor and strike back with an OHKO.

(Do note that many of the above calculations give Serperior Choice Specs to show it’s max firepower, but this leaves it vulnerable to fairy types or one of the many things that resists grass, and if you don’t hold specs, it’s firepower is even more depressing)

Serperior also doesn’t have much coverage at all. It’s only notable coverage move is Hidden Power (which is weaker than STABs in nearly ever case)

In conclusion, Serperior lacks the bulk, firepower, coverage, and sometimes even the speed to compete with AG’s top Pokémon.

Comments

I do understand that Serperior is kind of lackluster in everything but speed, but other than with NDM you didn't factor in that everytime Serperior uses Lead Storm/Draco Meteor it gets twice as powerful the next turn, which leaves almost everything you said with at the very least a guaranteed 2HKO

Serperior weaker than I thought

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But Zacian, Calyrex, Offensive Yveltal, Groundceus, Ditto, Fairyceus, and Eternatus all OHKO it, Defensive Yveltal can knock off the item or pivot out, and NDM lives 2 hits including the 2+ boost and 2HKOs.

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Ok thank you for all that work