Suggestion: a big general disclaimer

Question

I am fully aware that this question has been asked for. This was the answer it got.

It goes without saying that there may be errors on the site. 99% of the info on here is correct, the answer is for me to fix the last 1% :)
answered Jul 28, 2017 by Pokemaster

I'm sorry. I have the numbers now. And it's not 99%.

OK I'm a stats nerd, so I ran some queries on our database for PokemonDb to find the answer. So the average Pokemon has 61 moves! (or 61.0295 to be more precise)
answered May 3 by Pokemaster
/mean movepool
Mean: 73.77471264367816
answered Jun 10 by sumwun

That's exactly right. I was able to count, on average, 13 more moves on each Pokemon. My data was taken from Showdown!, where people actually care about keeping things accurate and up-to-date. Pokemaster, you specialize in keeping things accurate and up-to-date. So why are you doing such a bad job compared to the site that's there only to host battles? You're missing 13 moves on each Pokemon, or around 1/6 of their entire movepools. You claim that you try "to make Pokémon game information as easy to find and digest as possible." It's been 10 years already, and you're only 5/6 the way there. In case you didn't know, 5/6 is about 83%, which is less than 99%. When a site, especially a reference site, is this bad, you can't just assume that the users will assume that there'll be a few errors. Please add all the sketch moves, pre-evolution moves, transfer only moves, Dream World moves, and event moves that the site is missing. On top of that, why don't you also add the stuff about Pokemon locations, accurate move descriptions, and experience yields? This site certainly pretends to have that information, so why not have it for real? If you're busy right now and planning to "add those when I can", then in the meantime you should probably put a disclaimer in the dropdown under "community/other", or somewhere else that's at least as visible.
Again, sorry if my way of exposing this site was kind of mean.

Comments

I'm strapped for time, so going under that everything in that github is accurate;
PS considers different Hidden Powers a seperate move.
https://github.com/anAwsomePerson/DataSeek/blob/master/moves.txt
I reference your own data.

Pokemon Database does not.
https://pokemondb.net/pokedex/scizor

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I put checks in my code to make sure no move was counted twice, including hidden power.

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You mods can ban me if I say this but, I kind of agree on the slightest with sumwun. We can't really say that "The PokemonDB is virtually perfect, running on 99% correct information." when really, we don't.

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What is bad about this?

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Who’s “we”? Last time I checked, it was just Pokemaster who updated Database, not us. LOL.

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We have nice mods who totally don't abuse their powers to ban all those who criticize the site in the slightest :p (except maybe Fizz don't trust him)

That said, I'd like to point out that the 99% comment is kinda obscure as it is. It's not like PM has a huge banner where he boasts about having near perfect accuracy. And he does attempt to fix it, as seen by the other meta posts he makes for us to answer any time we notice an error, and to be fair, they're generally fixed.

This is not his main job, and he can only invest as much time in it as he sees fit. Any omission is not due to deliberate negligence, not does he intend to spread false information. He does his best, and that's quite enough for most of us, who are casual users of the site.

That said, you do have to admit that the question you referenced was kinda open ended, asked more to satisfy some curiosity than to actually use. It was a question that relied on  the use of statistics and not user experience and guidance, nor had an answer that was useful for the vast majority of the people who use the site. While your complaint may be valid, the scope and context are really narrow: the site offers more than that, and for the most part, it's accurate and serves the purpose. Most folks want to play a game and have fun, not overanalyze the data involved in the game.

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@EvilTwinNeedle Not like it matters or anything.

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> And he does attempt to fix it, as seen by the other meta posts he makes for us to answer any time we notice an error, and to be fair, they're generally fixed.
I've been complaining about not listing pre-evolution moves for almost 2 years, and a lot of errors reported in the locations thread are more than 3 years old.
> That said, you do have to admit that the question you referenced was kinda open ended, asked more to satisfy some curiosity than to actually use. It was a question that relied on  the use of statistics and not user experience and guidance, nor had an answer that was useful for the vast majority of the people who use the site.
That was the best way I had to measure the reliability of this site. If one day I figured out how to count the number of errors in the location guide, then I probably would.
> for the most part, it's accurate and serves the purpose. Most folks want to play a game and have fun, not overanalyze the data involved in the game.
In that case, the database should say somewhere that it's for casuals only. Because some people do take this information seriously, and that comment made it sound like a problem. I thought a disclaimer was a good way to "solve" it, but apparently not.

Answer 1

I'm not going to be doing that. Why would I put a big message saying "don't trust this site" on here? That's a surefire way to make people leave and never come back.

And while we're missing some moves, most of them are rare or difficult to obtain in-game. Transfer-only moves are not an "inaccuracy", the moves are shown in their respective generation pages. Having them listed in the current dex is a nice "quality of life" feature but not essential. Other sites (e.g. Bulbapedia, Veekun) don't show them either.

I don't know what you mean by "sketch moves". If you mean Smeargle's moves then there's no need to add every single one to its page, it's clear what Smeargle can learn.

Now I've finished the redesign I'll be making more content updates soon.

Comments

"Now I've finished the redesign I'll be making more content updates soon."
Do you have a list of plans or something that we can look forward to?

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You could at least tell people what this site is missing instead of pretending it's perfect. Because right now I think the Internet trusts this site way to much. I've seen people on various parts of the Internet get confused by what they saw here and I just have to tell them that Pokemon DB has problems. A general disclaimer can at least clear that up for everyone.

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sumwun, anyone with some common sense and has spent time on the internet will know that it's extremely unlikely for a site like this to have all the super accurate information. Bulbapedia has a way larger community but they don't know everything either.

If people trust the site too much, why is it PM's/the sites problem? Why should Pm go out of his way to tell people that his site is worse than it is? If you listened to a musician make a song that isn't great, do you expect the musician to start out by saying 'hey I know this isn't great but please stick around anyway'? That's bad selling and bad branding (usually). How many large websites do you know that do this? I'm guessing close to none, and there's a reason behind that.

I'm sorry if this sounds a little impolite but you're being slightly naive here. No self-respecting company/website/individual with ambition would put a disclaimer like that on their product. And that is what the site is at it's core - a product. No product lists it's negatives on it's packaging.

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This site's purpose is to inform people about Pokemon. If Pokemaster fixed a few errors, then this site will do its job better. If Pokemaster added something like, "Although we strive to be as accurate as possible, this site is made almost entirely by one person. Please be aware that information on this site, particularly information about Pokemon locations, may be inaccurate." somewhere on the site, then this site will do its job better. If something makes this site do its job better, then why should Pokemaster not do it?
If no product lists its negatives on its packaging, then do Bulbapedia and the Copyright Agency not count as products?

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I had a much longer comment, but I'm just going to substitute it for this.
You used Bulbapedia as an example.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bulbapedia:General_disclaimer
You're correct they have a disclaimer.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Main_Page
But the disclaimer is only available as a tiny link at the very bottom. Standard practise. Far cry from the "Big Banner under WELCOME TO POKEMON DATABASE" you suggested.

I completely agree with the idea of some sort of general disclaimer, but in no way should it be obvious and eye catching. That's just stupid marketing 101.

Also whats the context of "Copyright Agency" because I'm assuming we aren't talking about Copyright Agency LTD in Australia.

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Okay, I edited my question.

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> You could at least tell people what this site is missing instead of pretending it's perfect.
I don't pretend it's perfect. I've said many times we are missing some information. No website is perfect, they all have mistakes.

> I've seen people on various parts of the Internet get confused
Where? As PX said it's not really my problem, I try to be as accurate as possible. People should check multiple sources if they need to be 100% sure of something. Like I said, other websites have errors too (check on Serebii forums, there is a thread full of them similar to here).

> If Pokemaster added something like...
I'm pretty sure I did write that somewhere as an answer to another Meta question. I also answered your last question, and this one, so take those as your disclaimer if it really bothers you that much.

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So there's a problem, and the one person in the whole world who can most easily fix it is Pokemaster, and Pokemaster won't fix it? Is he lazy? Maybe instead of a general disclaimer, can we put "incomplete" notices on only the worst pages like Bulbapedia does? Or does that only work for wikis? Is it even socially acceptable to post this comment?

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I doubt PM is lazy, it's just that he doesn't have the time to go over pages and look for errors.

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“Pokemaster won't fix it”
Who’s saying that? Certainly not me. I’ve said many times already I intend to fix every error when I can. In fact I spent a few hours fixing some missing lives yesterday. But it’s not just as simple as clicking one button and magically fixing everything on the site.

You said you’ve been complaining about pre-evolution moves for 2 years, but if I had spent some time adding those then I wouldn’t have added something else instead, so maybe even more locations are missing. I wish I had infinite time but I don’t.

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You could have fixed those errors instead of making the new layout. I would have liked that.

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I'm not PM, but do you think he'll tailor the website to exactly what you want - sumwun? In some people's eyes the redesign might be pretty important to the overall experience of the DB. The issues you bring up are something PM can iron out with time. Be patient, and if you want uber accuracy you're probably better of using another website for that information.

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A few years ago he did say errors had more priority...

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Over a few years opinions and situations change. Maybe PM realised that he himself couldn't keep up with the amount of edits needed to be done so decided to hold it off until he had finished a redesign or until he had more time. In truth, we don't really know exactly what PM has planned for the future, but again we shouldn't hold it again the guy. Clearly he's a busy man who doesn't have the time to change tiny errors that, to be frank, will likely go unnoticed

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“instead of making the new layout”
If I’d done that, then (for example) the search box would not be visible on mobile. That’s been on my todo list since the last redesign (2013). So I’ve been prioritising fixing errors for 5 years before changing the layout.

It’s always a balance. I’ve also been considering ways for people to contribute more directly (like a wiki), but that also takes time to develop.

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I almost never use smart phones, so I didn't know. Sorry.