Meta-PokéBase Q&A
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So I am thinking about a thread/page, where users can post their teams for competitive formats. Then, experts, editors or higher who have a certain experience with that format will decide if the team is good enough, and if it is, then those teams will be archived and save as a sample.
Note: For competitive formats only, PS! formats are OK as long as not they are fakemons such as CAP, and OM (other metas).
It may also help when people just search like "a sample team for Gen 8 OU", then, instead of going to RMT section, and reading the whole improvement and suggestions, they can simply use that team submitted and approved by people which have knowledge about that format. This may also make Pokemon DB more popular and retain more traffic.
I do think that instead of allowing expert+ users, mods should allow users that have experience about a certain format, regardless of their points, privileges, etc.
I don't have much knowledge about competitive in games except Showdown!, so it would be nice if anyone would suggest what Pokemon games format should be allowed.
I think this post ask for such feature, but instead of only rentals, I want for competitive formats, especially PS! formats.

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At first I thought this would be the same thing as RMT, however I was wrong. I like this idea because it lets new competitive players access sample teams and get better. +1
This is a great idea
So you basically want us to archive better teams?

We could do this sure, but smogon already does this, and they get more good teams then we do.
@PX, there's also a moveset advice thread which can also be done on Smogon. Doing in our website would promote competitive play, not of any bad I think. There's no problem if we do one :P
Also I actually saw a rmt on it but I think it got closed but they had a team code. Fizz said to suggest it on meta, and I never got around to it(apparently no one else did either). Maybe you could have a set for team codes (I know myself that trying to raise competitive pokemon is a pain, much less an entire team with perfect ivs and evs.) Maybe you could also add a one for something like team codes for swsh (idk exactly how they work but from my limited knowledge of swsh you can do that) and just use pre made teams in game. Also I don't see why multiple people can't create teams. Sure they aren't as good but maybe someone doesn't want to make a smogon account (cough me). Also nothing started out perfect :P
Also there could be a mini rmt part in comments where people could note extra things like oh it learns Roost use Roost> recover so you lose rock weakness and stuff like that.

1 Answer

3 votes
 
Best answer

Don't take this answer as an explicit 'no', but maybe instead a collection of reasons why this isn't a cut and dry 'start the thread now' sort of deal.

I am going to be brutally honest: the quality of such a thread would be quite bad given the standard of competitive player we have here. There are some people who know enough to correct the mistakes of absolute beginners chucking their teams up on the RMT area, but overall, I'd be very wary of any competitive advice given to me on PokeBase; and naturally, I'm going to project that onto the newbies who come looking for advice without the foresight that somebody like me has got. (Not that I'm a fantastic competitive player, either!)

I understand we are never going to improve in that space unless we have the infrastructure to achieve it, but I already think that the RMT section as it stands is flawed. I think the wise thing to do is make real improvements to its structure and 'quality standards' before we add more stuff to it. If there is at least a good foundation for skilled players to use the area, then community-contributed sample teams could work; but as things stand, I don't think I'd personally ever be happy with the teams posted, so I'm reluctant to start things right away.

In theory, a workaround like this would work...

mods should allow users that have experience about a certain format, regardless of their points, privileges, etc.

...and the way I'd suggest we enforce it is to have prerequisites in games played + ladder stats, which makes it easy for people to see a) how good the players are at a minimum and b) how they can prove their own skill. It also removes the subjective element of mods having to decide if people are good enough (which I have no interest in doing, because I'll make everybody hate me lol).

However, this workaround just comes back to the original problem that there aren't many good competitive players here. If we made a requirement like "prove you have an alt with >80% GXE and >100 matches played in your chosen format" (which is similar to suspect test reqs on Smogon), then the thread is going to be quiet, and we're going to have no teams for the vast majority of formats. There's also the problem of cartridge formats being difficult to verify and make reliable standards for.

There is also this point PX brings up.

We could do this sure, but smogon already does this, and they get more good teams then we do.

The reality is that Smogon is always going to have better competitive players and better advice than us. They're a bigger community, they're focused entirely on the competitive scene, and they run half the formats people play. I genuinely believe that if we worked for it, we would have a pretty good community of competitive players here; but even if we did, it would just be topped by whatever Smogon has got.

In the same way Serebii's existence doesn't mean Pokemaster should quit running PokemonDB, we shouldn't give up on providing competitive advice just because somebody else is already doing it. But it's a plain truth that anybody smart is gonna go to Smogon for sample teams before PokeBase.

It'd be cool to run the thread anyway, for our own community if nobody else; but before we do, I think we need to reach a point where skilled players will find the sample team thread/s and want to make content for them. That starts with changing the RMT section from a list of disorganised, uncharacteristic, and low-quality "Rate my very first AG team with Flygon and Umbreon on it" posts into a community of half-decent competitive players sharing knowledge with people who've at least got a foot in the door.

Again, this is a popular suggestion and we'll do it if people want it. I just think there is no point in having the thread and letting it be filled with posts from people who think they're better than they are, or enforcing skill requirements and letting the thread die an early death. I'd want us to improve the RMT section first, so that second option becomes genuinely viable. (For context, I would not put sample team thread/s on the main section because there's enough clutter there as it is.)

Feel free to leave your thoughts below.

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Okay, that makes sense. But does it mean that since Smogon is better for competitive, we should never seek Pokemon DB? Also, isn't Bulbapedia/Serebii's better than DB for Pokemon Info? So should we stop using DB?
No? Our format differs from those two enough for us to have a niche, proven by the fact that we actually exist.

The question for me is: will putting our time and energy into something that roughly only 10 people want and will probably stop using in a week and a half be worth it?

Usually when we try to set up genuinely competitive events they don't work well. People lose interest very quickly. You say you want this now, but unless we get a big influx of new users who all play comp or we decide to focus our energy on creating a competitive attitude (which would take more time and energy than the mods at least have atm), single one off things like this don't work too well.

Tldr we either need to go full in on comp to make it work or treat is casually as we are, and we don't have time for the former atm
Though, to be clear, I really do think the changes I bring up in the thread linked in the answer would have a meaningful impact on the RMT section. There's a lot we can to do improve the competitive side of this community with not a lot of effort.
But yeah, I think our Q&A platform gives us a niche as compared to the other communities, and this is by far the best Pokedex website to navigate. There are some shortcomings both with this community and this website altogether, but it's the same with all the others too.
Do you still think sample team threads are worth it @Swastik?
Okay, I understand that but "(Not that I'm a fantastic competitive player, either!)" is a total lie :P
I feel like the "prove you have an alt with >80% GXE and >100 matches played in your chosen format" could work if you just required a certain amount of games/replays because a large amount of the RMT is just somewhat low-quality RMTs that have a lot of unviable sets. Generally some sort of rule that you have to *use your team*.