Allow OM movesets to be posted in moveset threads.

Question

I disagree with this post, which says that they're not allowed because they're illegal. If that's the case, then why do we allow questions about Hackmons on RMT or Pokebase? If we support Showdown, we should be supporting all formats of Showdown, not ones that are supposedly "legal". If it's thought about that way, then we shouldn't allow anything related to Showdown or Smogon, because the entire battle simulator is illegal use of Pokemon.

It simply makes no sense how we only allow some illegal sets (because remember, all of Showdown is illegal), and not others, especially when we're perfectly okay with having questions about those illegal OMs elsewhere on the site.

Comments

It's legal if Showdown! says it's legal.

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I agree. I we can have Hackmons Rates in RMT, we can very well have OM Movesets in the threads.
I don't think the 'legality' of it should be much of an issue.
bwahaha be ready to see my eternamax movesets now. If this is implemented.

Answer 1

This isn't what's meant by "illegal". It's referring to movesets that would be impossible to obtain in the base game without mods or hacks (which is both a common terminology, and used by official rule books -- though I suppose it's not 100% clear they aren't referring to the law).

I don't care that Showdown is illegal -- that's not my point. I'm saying that most people who go looking for a good set would probably not appreciate the top voted suggestions having 252 EVs in every stat and zero moves that can be learned naturally. It isn't helpful to anybody except specifically hackmons players, and I think it's reasonable to ask people playing "modded" formats like that to find a different place for their movesets.

This is not the same as allowing hackmons teams on RMT etc, because nobody is going to click your hackmons team expecting anything except hackmons. The moveset threads are different, because they care at least a little bit about giving applicable movesets to the average person's situation (which is reasonable to expect for formats like OU, but definitely not hackmons or STABmons or what have you). (By the way, Pokemaster has disallowed hackmons teams in the past -- I simply don't agree with him, and it was never put in the rules list.)

Posting movesets for OMs is not banned. The only thing you can't do is post sets for formats that change the base game in some way (though there is very high overlap with OMs there). If this answer doesn't change your complexion on such things, then you're welcome to make additional arguments in their favour and I'll hear that out.

Comments

I understand this perspective, but it still doesn't seem altogether reasonable. You say this...

 "It isn't helpful to anybody except specifically hackmons players"

...But if that's the case, why do we permit, say, Gen 8 ZU sets? That's not going to help anyone except specifically ZU players, so why bother having them allowed? I suppose I can sort of see the logic, but I simply don't agree with it.


Fair enough response though -- the rest of it makes sense. Thanks.

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I think that ZU will at least tease out the "basic" good moveset ideas for Pokemon in that format. I think it's clear that in general, Uxie is a defensive Pokemon that runs rocks, knock, U-Turn and STAB -- and that's exactly how it's used in ZU. There will be nuances based upon the different metas in each possible format, but the general gist is there for people who only care about the general gist (or don't care about ZU, or play a different format, etc).
My argument is that a hackmons Uxie set (hear me out lol) ceases to be a Uxie set. It is a set for Uxie in a different universe where it can access every move, every ability, every EV, etc. It's helpful for people interested in that, but for everyone else who just wants a Uxie set, the ZU content is going to help much more.

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Thanks!

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If the top-voted moveset is helpful only to hackmons players, then it either would not be top-voted, or there are a lot of hackmons players on this site. I don't see how either of these possibilities is a problem.

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@X no problem -- again, let me know if you're still not sure about this.
@sumwun it doesn't have to be literally the #1 post on the thread. Especially since we removed all the old answers on those threads, you can get near the top with only two or three votes. I think that's very much possible to get, especially if you vote for good movesets first (and formats you like second). And bear in mind most people reading those threads are not users of PokeBase (see their views in comparison to other questions).