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0 votes

I've always had a problem with frail 'glass cannon' Pokemon.
Anyways, tons of people are using Blaziken and Greninja and are reporting high levels of success with it. Something I'm not able to achieve.

These Pokemon would do fine in UU, but in OU and Ubers, they just get wrecked by EVERYTHING.
Blaziken is moderately good, because if you somehow survive one hit for a swords dance, you can do major damage before going down.

Geninja is even worser. Sure, it may have protean and all that, but even if you land a super effective move(Which is difficult with its limited movepool), it is very unlikely to be a kill on most Pokemon. And then greninja takes a hit and dies. Even strong moves that are not very effective on Greninja (and Blaziken to a lesser extent) kills it. So the best it can do is deal about 75-90% damage to one Pokemon before dying, which sucks.

So how exactly do you turn this chicken and frog into the fearsome sweepers people claim them to be?

How dare you disrespect lord king prince warlord greninja and by the way nothing personal:)

3 Answers

6 votes
Best answer

The ironic thing about this is that you say that these two would get wrecked in OU and Ubers, yet they were both banned from OU due to being too powerful. To be completely honest, I think it's because you're underestimating them or you aren't using them right. I'll cover these both separately since they both involve their own strategy.


*Useful for: Massive coverage, Protean, revenge killing capabilities, raw power*

I have absolutely no idea how you thought this had poor coverage. Greninja has access to fantastic coverage - it can't cover everything in four moveslots, but this allows it to pick and choose what it beats and adds to its unpredictability. It has Hydro Pump, Dark Pulse, Ice Beam, Hidden Power, Gunk Shot, Extrasensory, Low Kick and more in its arsenal, and thanks to Protean, it receives STAB on all of them meaning it is not only speedy but powerful. Gunk Shot is a move Greninja got in ORAS, and it's the move that eliminated Fairies as a check to Greninja, which made it very difficult to stop since it has almost perfect coverage of the game now. Another common answer, Chansey, also has to deal with the occasional Low Kick.

Greninja is a pretty simple Pokemon to use - it functions as a mid-late game sweeper and revenge killer since it's so fast and can hit many Pokemon for super effective damage. Some ideas as to how to use it:

  • Use Protean to change your type to resist incoming attacks. Protean is an amazing ability because it means it can counter so much more whilst taking less damage. For example, Gunk Shot will often fail to KO Fairies, and Greninja would often lose to Moonblast or another Fairy move due to its Dark typing. Thanks to Protean, however, you gain STAB to deal more damage and your type changes to Poison, which means you instead resist Moonblast. You can use the type changing ability to play mind games with your opponent - for example, if your strongest attacks barely fail to KO, first use an attack that will cause you to resist the incoming attack, then use the strongest attack which will now hopefully be in KO range.
  • If you don't think Greninja will KO and will die to the next hit, why are you keeping it in the battle? Unless letting Greninja die puts you in a better position in the game, you have other Pokemon to switch into to protect Greninja. You can also support Greninja by weakening Pokemon to a Pokemon where Greninja can KO, possibly through the use of entry hazards like Spikes or Stealth Rock.
  • The standard set is Hydro Pump, Gunk Shot, Ice Beam and Hidden Power Fire with EVs of 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe with Naive Nature. If you aren't using this, it's highly recommended.

Because Greninja is so fast, so powerful unboosted and has almost nothing in the ways of defensive counters, it's a Pokemon that was obviously toxic to the OU game and was suspect tested by Smogon. Nearly all the votes were in favour of the ban to Ubers. Since Greninja was banned it's been while since I've played with it, if anyone else thinks of anything else comment or edit :)


*Useful for: STAB coverage, sweeping*

This has been Ubers ever since it got its Hidden Ability, and is showing no signs of returning to OU at all. Speed Boost is a ridiculously overpowered ability that makes Blaziken substantially faster by simply using it for a turn. If you can find an opportunity to set up Swords Dance, Blaziken is a lethal sweeper that is far too good for OU. Most players would laugh at you if you told them Blaziken got wrecked in OU.

  • A general rule with sweepers is that there is no point trying to set up if your opponent can beat you with one of their Pokemon. For example, if you opponent has an Azumarill, you would not try to set up and sweep because Azumarill can switch in/ revenge kill you at no cost thanks to Aqua Jet. Only attempt to sweep a team if you know you can pull it off.
  • Know when it's safe to use Swords Dance. In your post you sound like you think it's incredibly difficult to set up a Swords Dance, but really it isn't. Blaziken has good Fire + Fighting STAB coverage that forces many switches - this would be a good time to set up. You could also set up while the opponent uses a passive move like Stealth Rock, Defog, Roost, etc. Obviously you can't just click Swords Dance whenever you want to - you just need a bit of common sense and a plan as to how you are going to find an opportunity to get a Swords Dance up.
  • Like Greninja, Blaziken is frail so you should protect it from Pokemon it loses to as you would with any other Pokemon.

Blaziken will likely remain in Ubers for a long time unless a dramatic shift in the game occurs that causes Blaziken to be less viable. It is a fantastic Pokemon and it's far too good for OU, let alone UU.

My best advice for using these Pokemon and for competitive battles In general is to practise. You will learn what these Pokemon can and can't do and you will learn how to play them to their strengths. It's possible that people are having more success with these Pokemon because they're simply more experienced - if you get to know the tier/ metagame you're playing more, you'll play better in general.

tl;dr: these Pokemon are much better than you think - either you're underestimating them, or you aren't playing with them correctly.

selected by
Dang it mines still clarifying your just to quick and forgot gunk shot but they will never expect him not having it
First of all Thank you for that detailed answer.
I know I have to use swords dance when I'm nearly sure the opponent won't use an offensive move, and I've had plenty of great sweeps with my Blaziken spamming HJK and Flare Blitz at +2 Atk and +2Spe. But the thing is, there are far better pokemon for the job in Ubers(Swords dance Arceus, for example).

And Greninja is still hopeless. Even if I change to a type that resists the incoming attack, it still takes HUGE damage. Feels as frail as Absol, really. It can't even learn nasty plot/swords dance for sweeping. I tried Greninja many times, but the result is still exactly the same as stated above : "So the best it can do is deal about 75-90% damage to one Pokemon before dying, which sucks.".....especially considering that it's in Ubers, where all the pokemon hit like an express train.
Any help?
Well yeah, that's the thing - Greninja has much less viability in Ubers. Because of that I was assuming you were playing Wifi battles or something like that which meant you could still use Greninja in the metagame it's so good in. Unfortunately Greninja is a lot worse in Ubers than OU so it isn't really the Pokemon you've been hearing about any more. If you do happen to be playing a non-Ubers game that Greninja is allowed in, you'll definitely notice how much better it is.

Blaziken on the other hand is much better off, especially using its Mega. I agree that there are more options for sweepers in Ubers, but saying that they're far better is a bit of an overstatement. ExtremeKiller Arceus is great for sure, but its main attack Extreme Speed doesn't have impressive base power like Blaziken's STAB does. Blaziken's attacks are considerably more powerful than Arceus's are:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 274-324 (71.9 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus: 346-408 (90.8 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (higher with Mega)
I agree that Arceus does a better job due to its bulk and superior neutral coverage, but that does not entirely rule out Blaziken as an option if Blaziken's stronger attacks are necessary. Once again though, Blaziken is not nearly as dominant in Ubers as it would be if it were OU.
Pretty sure HP Fire fell out of common use, with Low Kick being preferred over it. In Ubers, I'm not even sure if it gets any usage, but I'd expect it to run more attack EVs to take on Xerneas with Gunk Shot or something.
0 votes

1 how dare you disrispect greninja.
2your probably not using them right, people usually baton pass speed and attack so they hit first and strike hard and uasally set up Sub Or something so they can get a swords dance in and they arn't built for defence unless there is some new stratagy.
3greninja has a wide move pool thanks to protein and has at least 1 super effective move against any Pokemon.
4you probably don't use stratagy.
Here are some move sets for those two.
Ability protein
Item expert belt
Move 1 extrasity
Move 2 ice beam
Move 3 scald
Move 4 thunder bolt
No Evs I'm not good at them
Ability speed boost
Item life orb
Move 1 blaze kick
Move 2 sky uppercut
Move 3 Aerial ace
Move 4 brave bird

edited by
Thanks for answering, but why would one have Aerial Ace and Brave bird on Blaziken, and Sky Uppercut instead of HJK or Low kick?
0 votes

Ok,Greninja and Blaziken are two of my favorite Pokemon. Here's some help on how to use them.
Abillity:Protean (Really the STAB helps) or Battle Bond (Ash-Greninja ups almost all it's stats. If you just want higher stats and less damage output)
Make sure he's max speed max special attack to get in revenge kills and max HP so he can take hits from any Pokemon that happens to be faster than it.
Item: Choice Specs:
Ice beam: It's great for the grass types and is a garunteed hit
Extrasensory: It wrecks both Fighting and Poison types
Scald:It's just good as water-type coverage and the damage is pretty good plus potential burn
Hidden power : Dark is prefered for ghost-type sweepers like Gengar but you can use any Hidden power depending on the situation

Abillity:Blaze(Speed boost once mega evolved)
Make sure he's max Attack and HP
Fire blast:The most powerfull Fire-type move that doesn't cause recoil
Brick Break:Good for Fighting coverage
Earthquake: EQ is going to be really good for the electric and steel types.
Brave Bird: It may cause recoil but it wrecks teams. I have a max HP max speed Mega Blaziken recoil move setup and I one-shot a Girintina that was going on a massecre of my team with this move. It's just a great move to have on a Blaziken

This was tagged "omega-ruby-alpha-sapphire", so there's no battle bond. Also how can you max 3 stats? Why would you teach fire blast and brick break to Blaziken if flare blitz and high jump kick are so much stronger? Why does Greninja care about scald burns if it's supposed to one-shot its opponents?