Ninja is abusing his powers on the Pokemon Showdown! server

Question

Earlier today, the chat was in an argument about Ninja's Mega Metagross pair. He muted me and ignored me. Hex released me from my prison, saying the lock was unjustified. Just now, he locked me, which I believe was unneeded, as I did nothing. Perhaps a lowering in rank would suit this, or are all admins supposed to be jerks?

EDIT (3/10/14): I do see what Ninja is saying, and how I did not stop asking, and the mute is not what I'm worried about. However, when Ninja relogged, he locked me instantly. THIS is what I am bringing to notice. Also, I only mute-evaded the second mute that was given, the one I don't agree with, when I was talking to some friends on the server. The first one, the one that I find semi-just, occurred when I didn't even know what mute-evading was.

Comments

Maybe you said something bad?

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"tbh he was probably in a really bad mood.
As an unspoken rule, never piss off Ninja when his in a bad mood."

If someone is in a bad mood, then it's their fault for letting their emotions cloud their judgement. Other people shouldn't just excuse that.

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First off, you kept commanding me. It was annoying. So I muted you. I told you exactly why you were muted. Then you kept announcing how it was unjustified and tried to mute evade. So I muted you again. Each time you do it I will continue to mute you. And this goes for anyone.

Trachy, I am deeply sorry.

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Mega you were pretty much acting like a troll when your OP suggestions were turned down. Sorry, but you were asking for it, considering you wouldn't stop. Anyways a mute isn't like a ban, so stop whining if you were unmuted later.

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Mega Power vs Ninja Power

               Who wins¿
See next season at Pokemon DB

Answer 1

What? I never!

Swords at dawn good sir!

Comments

According to the question, you ever. xD
Not to be rude... :3

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I'll referee.


Jerry Springer style.

Answer 2

I abuse. I want a post all about me! Make me famous!
But really, Ninja does a good job with moderating, so leave him be.

And even if the was a slight hint of aboose moose(o3o) then I'm sure you could deal with it. No?

Comments

Lolz..

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Even if there's no demotion, there should at least be some kind of legitimate apology, and not just Ninja throwing a tantrum and hiding everything he disagrees with like usual.

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Mega was actually acting like a troll saying that Uber Megas should be unbanned just to make Meta OP as heck. So this isn't Ninja's fault or Nothing you said@DT. Ninja was patient with him, so no apology is deserved if he did his job.

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Is it really the case if Hex considered it to be unjust? I don't know what happened, obviously, but I can't help but not simply write this off if another moderator felt that the person didn't deserve to be muted. His word is as good as yours.

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I didn't see a lock, just a mute, and a Mute was definitely justified. Idk if Ignore=Lock, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't locked at the time he was muted.  And he said "The lock was unjustified" :/ I'd agree with a lock being unjustified, but didn't see one like I said.

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Not seeing it and it not happening are two different things.

I just want to get to the bottom of this so that 1) if there was a problem, it can be resolved and 2)if Ninja truly was being just, then it won't be held against him in any way.

Simply telling someone that they did deserve it without any explanation and that they were asking for it isn't going to accomplish anything. They wouldn't have made this post if they felt it was fair, so for the sake of both parties, it would be helpful to go deeper into this.

The punishment isn't relevant. It's the fact that this person feels that it was imparted unfairly that is upsetting to them, so to say that it's not a big deal glosses over the issue of whether it was fair or not. I really don't want this kind of thing to keep popping up, so if this is going to stay, it's gonna need more detail coming from the accused as to why they were just than "you weren't behaving."

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The same can be said to him, as he was vague in how he explained what happened to him anyways. So that could play as a "opposite" deal. And also assuming that Ninja was throwing a tantrum and throwing in an "as usual" isn't helping your cause at all. I'll be certain to say that all auths abuse their power in some way, so i'm sure he won't get a demote or anything just for one server screw up. Like I said before,  a lock was unjustified, as I didn't know he was. As said, he needs as well to give more detail as he makes himself seem innocent, when he wasn't. If we had to give more detail to punish someone, then saying "spammed chat at ....." shouldn't be on the ban report page. Or the answers saying a user was "just being an annoyance".  It's no big deal anymore because he was already unmuted and unlocked. Past is past. And if you don't want things like this to keep popping up, maybe you should suggest a change in auth, that is, if you were active on the server. But something as small as this isn't worth a complete overhaul of auth, because as stated, all auths abuse their power in some way.

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"Because they throw the stone should I throw mine as well?"

"Too forgetful are those who follow in a pack, the ones who see the wolves are those up on the hill"

Just because everyone does it does not make it legit, in other words. And what DT is doing is attempting to satisfy both parties and eradicate this potential issue in the future. So rather than justifying or pointing fingers, let's just work together, figure out what happened, and attempt to solve it.

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"The same can be said to him, as he was vague in how he explained what happened to him anyways. So that could play as a "opposite" deal. "

then that's all the more reason to look deeper into this. Two wrongs on both sides don't make a right for both of them.

"Ninja was throwing a tantrum and throwing in an "as usual" isn't helping your cause at all. "

Considering the expert post was hidden and this isn't the first complaint I've seen about people being muted unfairly, I want to look into this and do so with reservations. I didn't throw that out from left field.

" And if you don't want things like this to keep popping up, maybe you should suggest a change in auth, that is, if you were active on the server. But something as small as this isn't worth a complete overhaul of auth, because as stated, all auths abuse their power in some way."

I never said to do an overhaul, only to look deeper at the issue at hand. I don't understand why you're now saying everyone abuses power in some way, and if so, why it's suddenly okay to overlook if it happens. Not saying it's the case in this situation, but to just say that as a handwave is clearly turning a blind eye to being fair with people. there'd be no point in even bringing it up if Ninjas was being fair in this. The whole reason we put things on the ban report is so that other users that can ban and take action can be informed about incidents they weren't around for, and to have  a record of the official's actions so that they don't run into situations like this--people calling them unjust.

Also, I never said to demote him. Quit putting words in my mouth and then discrediting what you think I said.

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Exactly. What I'm saying that you should first look into the situation first instead of  just assuming that Ninja is immeadiately one to blame for this. From what you first said that is. And the Expert Post has been unhid as far I know. I only said that because "2)if Ninja truly was being just, then it won't be held against him in any way. " I wasn't using that as an argument, just as a counter to that statement. Exactly, but what you're saying is that they should provide more info on the subject, not seeing that the Ban Reports are similar to this. I just don't agree on how you aproached the discussion by saying we need more detail to be proven innocent. Even the saying goes, "Innocent til proven guilty". But yes, I agree that we use them as a guideline, them being the ban reports that is.

I never said you did, i was referring to what Mega said there, jeez calm down.

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"if Ninja truly was being just, then it won't be held against him in any way"

You misunderstood this portion then. I meant that it's in his interest to get to the bottom of his either way. I meant that in the event that he isn't guilty, he should work to prove his innocent, and if he is, then he should prove and just apologize. You're not reading closely.

The expert post was unhid one day ago, and that's not without hiding all the other opinions that  were in the comments and the fact that the whole thing was hidden to begin with.

"Exactly, but what you're saying is that they should provide more info on the subject, not seeing that the Ban Reports are similar to this. I just don't agree on how you aproached the discussion by saying we need more detail to be proven innocent. Even the saying goes, "Innocent til proven guilty""

Then you're saying the same thing as me. I don't want Ninja to keep getting pestered by this just because nobody is going to elaborate on what happened. I outright asked hex on both the mute AND the lock, and he told me that he felt neither one was just. So when two officials are disagreeing, I consider it prudent to have someone look at the situation instead of hiding all around and pointing fingers.

"I never said you did, i was referring to what Mega said there, jeez calm down."

"The same can be said to him, as he was vague in how he explained what happened to him anyways. So that could play as a "opposite" deal. And also assuming that Ninja was throwing a tantrum and throwing in an "as usual" isn't helping your cause at all. I'll be certain to say that all auths abuse their power in some way, so i'm sure he won't get a demote or anything just for one server screw up."

I'm not upset, for one, and two, specifiy who you're talking about. The majority of the post addressed what I said, so it's really out of place to have something directed at someone else then. If you read this portion, I can't understand how the post suddenly shifted in who it was directed at.

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Hmm I guess you're right there. I got nothing to say haha. I got a lot to learn about debating huh? It's hard to interpret things without the..... emphasis I guess? If that's the right word

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I'm sick of this.

There is no damn problem. MG was muted for being annoying. Then he got i=on my case for the mute. I explained. He still pestered me. So I locked him.

"First off, you kept commanding me. It was annoying. So I muted you. I told you exactly why you were muted. Then you kept announcing how it was unjustified and tried to mute evade. So I muted you again. (Correction: Locked) Each time you do it I will continue to mute you. And this goes for anyone."

I also have no recollection of Hex saying it was unjust. Hex, can you confirm this?

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and I'm trying to get him off your back, Ninja. Simply telling him that you were just isn't going to solve anything. He made this post, so it's clear he disagreed with you. That post is just summarizing what you're saying, but gives little reason for why you were just.

I explicitly asked him just a few minutes ago and he said yeah. I don't have a screenshot, but you can ask him if you want.

You're sick of this, but if you don't want to be objective to help clear your name, don't get pissy with me about it.

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Thanks. Wasn't sure who the aim was at.

And it has been pretty much clear we can abuse our powers on PS. So I don't care if MG sees a problem. We imp and mute people all the time. Most of the time for no reason. All of us do it. So I see no problem with muting someone for a legit reason. this isn't going to change unless ~ say so.

I also wasn't throwing a tantrum. I gave several warnings, as well. Like 4.

For everyone at the server: I'm sick of justifying myself for every little thing. Either people can choose to accept my justification or not. But I'm not going to continue with more and more reasons. If you are going to refuse them, fine. But if you are going to continue pestering, I'm going to ban from the server. I have even announced multiple times to not bug staff (especially myself, because when i get angry I inflict much harsher consequences)over and over with issues.

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Part of being an auth is having to deal with the public side of that Ninja. And if we listen to you and don't question anything you do you can just ban anyone and the rest of us will roll over and ignore it which is not ok.
And just because you get angry does not mean you can use it as an excuse, if the President got angry and launched missiles at China then the world isn't going to say "Well it's fine because it's the past and he was upset that morning."
So if you are one of our admins, and you are, then you must understand that you have power and that you can't let your personal life affect that. You should also understand that you will get called out a lot on things, and so to completely wipe it off your plate, say why you did it straight out, and then maybe we'll stop poking and prodding trying to get down to the details. If you want us to stop calling you out then maybe you should quit giving us reason to?

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I realize this isnt a nice situation, but everyon appears too be too scared about disagreeing with the auth they wont speak up. I'll do it, note im not intetionally flaming anyone. Pease stop the damn drama. Its unecessary, and gives us no indication on whether anyone actually has cleared or not. Its silly and just not needed. No one needs this, so either stay completely  polite and professional , take it elsewhere  or stop. I dont need auth to have common sense. Ninja seems just, and theres no reason to carry on. So, I hope I made sense. TTyping on PS3 Sucks

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First part: "Stop the drama", what drama? So far everyone's been very reasonable and the only "drama" that is occuring is when people misunderstand what someone else is saying. And from what I can tell that only happened with DT and Mike and they sorted it out with no "drama"
Second part: On what basis does Ninja seem just? From what I can tell it's still shrouded because Ninja has yet to give a well thought out response explaining why he did what he did. All that I can tell is that the user annoyed Ninja so ninja muted him. If that's a good reason I'll go eat my brother's hat.

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"And it has been pretty much clear we can abuse our powers on PS. So I don't care if MG sees a problem. We imp and mute people all the time. Most of the time for no reason. All of us do it. "

Then that's an even bigger problem of abuse. I never said you did it, only that you should take effort to clear your name since you're being accused of being unjust. The fact that other people do something or that it's done frequently doesn't make it acceptable. If something truly is fair, then it shouldn't require a specific rank to do it either. That's not being fair, that's just doing whatever you want with your power.

"I also wasn't throwing a tantrum. I gave several warnings, as well. Like 4."

I wasn't talking about this instance, I was talking about the general reaction of hiding everything.

"For everyone at the server: I'm sick of justifying myself for every little thing. people can choose to accept my justification or not. But I'm not going to continue with more and more reasons. But if you are going to continue pestering, I'm going to ban from the server. I have even announced multiple times to not bug staff (especially myself, because when i get angry I inflict much harsher consequences)over and over with issues.
"

Then why are you a moderator? Your job is to be fair and just. You can't expect people not to call you out if you don't take any effort to be fair instead of doing what you want. Banning someone because you aren't willing to explain something is as unjust as it gets.


 Ninja seems just, and theres no reason to carry on. So, I hope I made sense. TTyping on PS3 Sucks

" Please stop the damn drama. Its unecessary, and gives us no indication on whether anyone actually has cleared or not. Its silly and just not needed. No one needs this, so either stay completely  polite and professional , take it elsewhere  or stop. I dont need auth to have common sense."

That's much easier said than done, recoded. So quit asking people to stop ever accusing people of things if they feel that something is unfair. that's what invites even more problems on the site. We have common sense here, so don't imply anything else, please. Someone "seeming" just isn't enough--if they're accused of something, they can take the effort to clear their name.

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@MrK. Ninja did say why.
"First off, you kept commanding me. It was annoying. So I muted you. I told you exactly why you were muted. Then you kept announcing how it was unjustified and tried to mute evade. So I muted you again. (Correction: Locked) Each time you do it I will continue to mute you. And this goes for anyone."

I understand that it's not thorough, but he DID give an explanation.
From how Ninja said it, MG was trying to tell Ninja to do something. If we know what this is, it might clear things up a bit.
But them, MG was STILL pestering him. So he muted him. I guess depending on your point of view, you can either say Ninja was being unjust because he didn't wait for MG to totally explain things, or that he was because he did give an explanation.
It really is hard to go on from here because we don't have the full story, and I'm not sure if Hex commented on this or not.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLsyNBnE5M

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Almost everyone is being agressive or complaing about each other than whats actually at hand. All i asked was us to be sensible, which right now isnt happening. And the just part is my opinion. People are often hasty, and Ninja explained his actions well enough, to me at least. I just dont like his follow up reaction

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"I guess depending on your point of view, you can either say Ninja was being unjust because he didn't wait for MG to totally explain things, or that he was because he did give an explanation."

Dr. Flame, you just summed up what we've been saying this whole time...We're not saying "Oh, durrhurr, Ninja's guilty, screw him!" We're saying for him to elaborate on what happened  and give more information as to settle what happened.

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Thanks DT. I didn't actually read this whole thing, so I kind of gave a summary of that I thought it was about. And for anyone who wants to get a shortened version, there it is :p

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"Almost everyone is being agressive or complaing about each other than whats actually at hand. All i asked was us to be sensible, which right now isnt happening. And the just part is my opinion. People are often hasty, and Ninja explained his actions well enough, to me at least. I just dont like his follow up reaction"

Mike and I have no ill will toward each other, and as said several times already, we're asking for more elaboration, we're not saying he did it. You shouldn't go on  just word or trust alone if you want your name cleared.

"

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I agree with all l of that. That wasnt my point. My point was to stay polite and profession. NBoth DT and Ninja were being impolite. Thats all I was trying to say XD

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I tend to be a bit impolite when I want to help someone not get accused of someone and all they can say is that they're sick of it and not willing to explain anything in detail, but get upset at people.

And if you had a portion that Ninja seemed just, it's clear that it's NOT all you were just trying to say. You made the claim that he was innocent, and thus you took a side.

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I do say good gentlemen, I quite disagree with your opinions here. Pardon my language, but I do believe you're all being @#&$*%# *#%*&#*%&%*#*%&$*%& @ @#*$&%&&&$#*%

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I didn't notice DT being impolite, unless you misunderstood what he was trying to say.

Plus Prof if you want to keep the drama down, commenting and accusing people of being impolite and stirring the drama pot rarely helps :p

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This would be nothing without Trachy's random quips regarding the post.

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I was trying to add a fill stop to the convo. I never wanted to comment than once. I understand what DT is saying. In fairness, DT did just say he tends to be impolite in convo, id just like a little sanity xD. I agree with the statements, just wanted calm. TBH MK, i know youre trying, but accusing me backk doesnt help stop the convo. I know I get easiliy irritated, but this really aint helping. Can we comment on what actually happended rarther than replying or arguing against separate issues? Id like this to be my last comment and let the slaves imean auth work ;P

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Then don't join in if you don't want people calling you out in a disagreement.

"Can we comment on what actually happended rarther than replying or arguing against separate issues? Id like this to be my last comment and let the slaves imean auth work ;P"

If you even said this, then you're missing the whole point of this entire thing. We're saying for people to comment more on what happened. I don't know how else to say that Mike and I aren't debating over if Ninja is just. I'm saying the guy needs to post more about what happened if he wants people off his back, and that he's in no place to complain if he chooses not to.

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Iirc, about the time MG posted this, he was muted, this was some time after this first mute where I guess he was being annoying and I don't even recall the reason to this second mute, if there even was a reason. I think as soon as Ninja entered he was just muted.

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This is why I love trachy.

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Thank you I Suck QQ, this is when I was locked. That does clarify very well.

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The reason was because as soon as I entered he said "I hate you"

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I think we can end this here.

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Sure, sciz. It's definitely not going to continue or have a similar issue play out in which both sides act incredibly vague and dodgy but expect everyone to agree with them.

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Wait, just by saying 'We can end it here' just ends the argument?
Well, whaddaya know. I should do that sometime. :/

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Wow, 32(-2) really unnecessary comments about a small pointless thing.

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Well, I'm so glad you're above it all. Jeez.

We kept saying over and over again that people should elaborate more on the issue to get it out the way.

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Peace And love
ANd why is it feeling like I just read a book

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Weird, since I just did read a book! :o