Updating Teambuilding 101

Question

So this is may be hella controversial but idk

I feel like the Teambuilding guide in PokeBase isn't the...most fleshed out, or beginner friendly. As a person who basically self-taught myself competitive Pokemon, I know what things newbies should know when they're just starting out. That being said, when I was looking at the new RMT rules (great job Fizz), I can't help but think that new players aren't going to give a crap about "Teambuilding". The link that Teambuilding 101 sends you to is very long as it is compressed with other "Read before posting" rules, most likely making new players/users bored and say "fck it we ball".

The actual Teambuilding section itself is also very plain. Sure, you mentioned formats, EVs, IVs, and Smogon, but it is very unlikely that a new player would understand everything. As much as I love Smogon, it's main page is quite badly formatted, and I feel like it is geared towards veterans who know what they are doing (case in point, the first thing I did when I saw Smogon was to look at my favorite Pokemon in Strategy Dex and be like "oo this cool i forget all in 2 seconds"). Smogon guides in particular (like the EV guide) jump into the fray of things with damage calcs and Pokemon that beginners have no idea about, making them more advanced guides. I feel like DB is more geared towards beginner competitive players due to its more straightfoward layout and popularity, so we should probably have some more beginner-friendly guides. Believe me, I tried teaching a few people competitive Pokemon (and a few still play today) and I had to go through a ton more than basic guides online.

As to how this can be fixed, I feel like we (or one of us, I don't mind depending on how much time I have) should try and revamp the Teambuilding 101. With basic knowledge of game mechanics (like the PhysSpec split, that took me a year to realize it existed), we could then direct them to Smogon and more advanced guides/competitive communities. I understand if no one supports this idea, as we are not a community geared towards competitive Pokemon. However, as one of the most popular Pokemon sites and already having established a RMT section, I think it may best for new users to at least have a basic understanding of something.

TLDR: I think the Teambuilding 101 section is a little barebones, and the advanced guides it links to are all too complicated for a beginner player to understand and get him interested. As a popular Pokemon site, having a more basic guide could be beneficial for all the new players, especially those in RMT who are just excited to try out competitive but have no idea what to do.

I just wanted to watch out for me 5 years ago who ran Mixed Charizard X and evened out all his stats, all the while thinking he was the best player ever
Also having 3 consecutive (maybe even more) posts in RMT just shut down, potentially bc guides are too complicated and uninteresting, is just painful to me

Comments

Not controversial at all. Really appreciate the thoughtful feedback.
I'll respond in full later when I have a minute. For now, do you have any other thoughts as to what a beginner teambuilding guide should address?
We did have a project a while back https://pokemondb.net/pokebase/meta/59402 that could be used as a basis, maybe if we refocused the content back onto PokeBase itself.

May need to reword the name "teambuilding 101", since that guide is more intended to help newbies know thyself and learn how to do their own research.

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I'll read what's already written in a sec once my vpn works, but basically I want these guides to be helpful to someone that barely knows any Pokemon. For example, establishing the competitive in competitive Pokemon is something I say every time when teaching someone new. I also like to teach Pokemon roles first (unlike the project, which put it at 4th) so my friends can infer what roles new Pokemon should fill. Finally, I understand how the original Teambuilding 101 is more to push research than actual info, but as I've stated, the Smogon guides are inadequete for beginners, and I can't seem to find other professional guides after my very brief look. Might be wrong tho, maybe YouTube has better guides.

Also it seems like the project died down in 2018 (dam that felt like a year ago i feel old), and since I believe PX is inactive, are there any plans to restart it or are we going to have an entirely new project/premise?

Edit: Took a look at the existing guides, they could work but the lack of images make them one hell of a slugfest to read (no offense to PX, they just don't seem appealing to beginners, and I'm sure they have a lot on their life atm) The information is also kind of spread out; for example, the Phys/Spec split is thrown into the Stats part (not the worst, but I would preface phys/spec first probably as moves are easier to understand than Stats imo), and not all types of moves are listed (status/disruption, pivot, how moves affect a Pokemon's roles and how Lando became the swiss army knife of swiss army knives, etc)

Answer 1

Another time for good measure: thanks for being so thoughtful about this.

I feel like the Teambuilding guide in PokeBase isn't the...most fleshed out, or beginner friendly. ... The link that Teambuilding 101 sends you to is very long as it is compressed with other "Read before posting" rules, most likely making new players/users bored and say "fck it we ball".

I should probably rename that section of the guide and change that rule. The guide isn't intended to teach teambuilding concepts, moreso to define bare minimum standards that we'd accept in terms of team quality. That doesn't have the same ring to it, but I'll think of something.

I agree the guide is wordy and the "non competitive approaches" part is too officious. I'll try to make it more educational as to why "don't suggest legendaries" doesn't work for us as competitive players.

Beyond that, I'm thinking we need a separate collection of guides that cover off teambuilding and battling basics + beginner pitfalls. I have a bunch of half-cooked content on this somewhere that I'll finish off at some point. You're welcome to start on your own.

The actual Teambuilding section itself is also very plain. Sure, you mentioned formats, EVs, IVs, and Smogon, but it is very unlikely that a new player would understand everything.

Let's attack some basic concepts like roles, checks/counters, teambuilding archetypes, momentum, etc in a separate guide. I agree there is no place you can go for a straightforward explanation of these things and I'm excited that other people see niches like that which we can fill here.

I talk about this in your other thread, but maybe we can start a new tag with competitive advice, and just have "how to pass our rules" up the top to check that box.

I understand if no one supports this idea, as we are not a community geared towards competitive Pokemon. However, as one of the most popular Pokemon sites and already having established a RMT section, I think it may best for new users to at least have a basic understanding of something.

Agree. We are not going to beat Smogon at their own game with very granular metagame discussion and insights, but we can do things like this better than them.

Also having 3 consecutive (maybe even more) posts in RMT just shut down, potentially bc guides are too complicated and uninteresting, is just painful to me

People just aren't invested enough to read the rules. Doing that and then putting descriptions on each mon is too much work for how much they actually care about getting considered advice. Only way to fix is by making it abundantly clear that attitude won't fly.

Comments

I'm grinding on the beginner guide rn and trying to make it as clear as possible. I also have a whole host of people that I can test the effectiveness of it on. School is bogging it down (along with other stuff) but I'll try and get it out sometime.

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No rush, take your time. Chuck into a meta thread when you're ready to share.