Meta-PokéBase Q&A
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Hey! It's been a while (nearly two years!) since the last time we did promotions and a fair amount has changed since then, so I think we're due for another round.

To outline exactly where we're at with things, I do think that the mods on the site are "active" in some capacity except Ninja and probably DT. If we count activity by actual posts, that can be reduced to Kyron, trachy and I. Editors make few additions to this; though Sempiternus and fondant are around for admin stuff occasionally, we don't have any truly "active" editors at the moment. This won't improve as most of us are doing tertiary education, work or finishing high school, so I think we should bump up the amount of auth members we have to fill these gaps -- perhaps even going as far as to promote experts prior to 6k points, which we've refrained from doing for years. A break in that culture would do us well I think.

Presently, these are the two that I think would be most fitting for the position of editor (users who can hide, show, approve and reject any post), but this is absolutely open for discussion (I have other thoughts about this too, should this amount/ timezones be insufficient). If you have any other ideas or suggestions, leave them below!

  • !'•-Indigo-•'! has been active for the best part of three years and has made substantial contributions to the community, with over a thousand answers and another thousand comments. She could lend Sempi and I a hand covering Asia-Pacific timezones.
  • Astronautical has been a consistently active and high quality contributor for over two years, and in that time has made several thousand posts. His timezone can help fill the gaps left by some of the less active staff members in North America.

With regards to experts (users who can edit any post, anywhere), I'm more interested in hearing what the general community/ Pokemaster has to say about them before we start doing anything. Whilst it's fully within our (mod's) power to promote experts whenever we want and to whoever we want, I don't think it's ever been done and as stated before, and I think it should be in our interest to start making use of the feature. The more people we have improving and fixing posts, the better off the site is. The criteria for expert should be that a. we think we can trust the user and b. believe they would be able to better the site by editing other's posts. 6k points can simulate that criteria, but there are plenty of people who have been (and more that I think currently are) deserving of the powers well before they had the sheer quantity of posts required to satisfy a point requirement. There should be more manual input from mods and the community here. I also think a stronger culture of improving others' answers should be encouraged and welcomed; this isn't a forum, it's about producing the best possible answers. Having more experts can facilitate that. (See this comment for more on what I mean by this. Bascially I think more frequent use should be made of the editing features.)

So, should we start doing more "manual" expert promotions? Do you think anyone else qualifies for the editor position? Feel free to leave your input below.


April '17 update: we still need these promotions!

Instead of thoughtlessly bumping this post like I was about to, I figured I'd update it a bit since it's been some time since I made this post. The bottom line of what I have to say here is that increasingly, I feel like I'm currently the only staff member who is consistently able to not only check the admin but actually moderate the site on a regular basis. I went and had a look at the main section's account pages for other staff members, and according to the moderator's "last write action" field (which I know includes interactions with the admin), the only staff members who have made any actions in the past month are trachy and I, as of today. I can go through pretty much the entire "hidden" section of the admin and remember my own decisions on much every post in the list, which indicates to me the extent of this problem. At this rate, if I were to suddenly disappear for school or something, new posts might as well go for multiple days in the admin before trachy or someone else gets to them. This is why we need editors now, please. I/we can only do so much.

In my opinion the site could absolutely do with more frequent and perhaps less stingy promotions. I said it above with experts, now I'll say it again for editors and mods: the more we have, the better off the site is. Both of the users mentioned in the original post remain good candidates for promotions, and I can suggest others as well, should that be necessary. People aren't active forever -- we should start taking advantage of reputable and active users whilst they are able to pitch in instead of doing promotions rounds every one or two years and more or less relying on the same people constantly. That approach will continue to make problems like this.

I also want to mention here these posts I made recently, both of which would make the admin and moderation process easier on staff members and hopefully for everyone else as well.

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First off, I just wanted to say before anyone else: I 100% support Astro's and Indigo's promotion to Editor status. They are both really, really good at what they do. Although I know Astro better than Indigo, I'm sure they're perfect for promotion. AFAIK both are really friendly and well respected by all users. And, as you said, they're very active in the community.

Also, about the "improve answers" part. I'm curious: Does this mean grammatical mistakes or otherwise? Also, how okay are users with their posts being edited? Obviously, most people wouldn't mind, but I think we should look for a way to see what the general consensus on the matter is.
Good question. Anything you can add to an existing answer that you couldn't use to justify posting your own answer, basically. Edits for formatting and grammar will be a large amount of that, though I would also encourage adding minor details to answers if they aren't overly descriptive. I think this has always been the rough guideline, though it's not always carried out so I wanted to encourage it/ allow some more active users to do it, if that makes sense.
Astro and Indi both deserve the status. The only issue I see is that Indi barely exists lately. I mean she'd likely come back more often is she was promoted but even so, you get my point. I asked her a while ago about how active she was gonna be and she said she was basically just gonna be answering questions time to time.

Also Mike promoted me to Expert for a few days but trachy demoted me ;~;
What made trachy against you? o.0  Fear him, and make amends ASAP. Chances are he's hunting you down as we speak.
Hey fizz, you say both trachy and Kyron are active, but I've barely seen them. Are they silently editing stuff or are you talking about 2-3 months ago kind of active?
P.S. Kyron's username is Kameko rn, right?
trachy abused me in a drunken rage. In actuality he just demoted me because I wasn't at 6000 and he wanted to make sure that was allowed and I think everyone just forgot. I'm not sure.

Kyron's around reasonably often. Obviously no idea what he's been doing in admin but things like hiding and approving don't appear on our plebian activity stream. Also that's his name yeah.
Both users are great choices. They both deserve it. Though, if I had to choose one, it'd be Astro. Since, as mentioned above, Indi's not exactly the most active person these days. Anyway, that's my two cents.
A few years ago, people were complaining about too many Experts. I think it's still good to allow someone Expert status when they reach 6000 but I know there are many <6000 point users who deserve Expert. As long as another Gligurr situation isn't created, too many Experts really isn't a bad thing if they're all worthy.
And Editor status? Whoa... my activity consists me silently checking in everyday and answering the questions that I can be bothered answering. Not sure if you want that or not. Also, Astro seems much closer with the community than me; I rarely go on chat and never go on the server. Despite all this, I'd probably urge myself to become more active upon promotion (I have nothing else to do lol). I'll leave it in the community's hands. Thank you for the consideration, fizz. :)
@Rex: yes Kyron, trachy and I have all made numerous posts in the last month or two, the others not so much. We're all doing what we can behind the scenes with approving and rejecting posts (some more than others obviously), but the overall activity is definitely at a lower point than it has been in the past which is why I thought this was necessary. And yes as stated by PX, that's Kyron.
@Indigo: yeah that's my mentality exactly regarding experts! Gligurr's situation testifies to how 6k is not a perfect measure of who should get editing powers. And trust me, if I thought you weren't active enough, I would not have recommended that you become an editor. So long as you're able to pitch in moderating and approving/rejecting posts in the admin -- which you've effectively just indicated that you could -- you're fit for the position I think. And besides, your contribution to the site really shouldn't go unrecognised :)
I personally see no reason to change the Expert system at the moment. Simply put, what is the point? I don't see any change happening with a new influx of Experts. Editing powers are only rarely required. I have only used mine once (as a joke) since the time I've been back.

I am on board with new Editor promotions though. I think it is necessary due to the waning activity of most auth.
Editor promotions are good, I know for a fact that Aeternis has little interest in returning to the site so we should at least have someone to replace him. As for Experts, 6k always seemed like a chore that no doubt leads to people spamming answers in hope for votes and BA's. By changing the criteria to trust and quality, we'd likely cut down on people answering for the sake of accumulating points. This would also serve as incentive to improve the quality of answers, which as far as I can see has no negative impact.
Woah… I never would have expected being recommended for Editor after only two years. Thank you for the consideration! Indigo is a good choice, there's been a few times I've looked at her profile and forgotten that she's not an Editor. She'd be a an excellent one.

As for manually promoting Experts, I think it's a good idea. It would require more familiarity between those who can promote — the moderators — with individual users and the quality of their posts, but it wouldn't be unmanageable. (This might not even be a valid point, I don't know how much you mods know about us O.O) If there is an abuse of power, which would be less likely if Expert status was based on trust/quality, is there a way to demote someone from Expert back to Registered User? That's just a question I had. On top of more case-by-case promotions, perhaps it would be good to lower the point requirement slightly? Like, say, 4000 or 5000?

I would say those are my two cents, but in Canada we don't have pennies, so that's my nickel.
"That's my nickel" lmfao I'm stealing that for all the countries okay?
Completely agree with the promotion of Astro and Indigo (I could've sworn that Indigo was already an Editor, but I guess not). They're both fantastic users and great contributors to the site. There have been some concerns raised with Indigo's activity, but if Indigo is confident that that shouldn't be a problem, then I say that's good enough for me.

In regards to Expert status, Astro raises a good point in that there really is no way to demote based on the point system. Once a user reaches 6000 points, they have their powers, and demoting them to a Registered User doesn't take away these powers. This is why with the whole Gligurr situation, we had to end up banning Gligurr, even though that isn't something I like to do and something that rarely happens for actual users (spam accounts are of course fair game). So I'm a bit iffy on the idea of changing it, especially since the ability to edit is actually a big deal and should only be given to those who are trustworthy.

Also, I'm sorta active. I mostly stick to the approval queue, dealing with flags, and converting answers into comments when the need arises. School just started up again this week, so I'm a bit busy. I would be more active on the site if other people were more active. I enjoy talking to everybody here. But when I go on there's nobody there. ;-;
>Once a user reaches 6000 points, they have their powers, and demoting them to a Registered User doesn't take away these powers.

Was this changed sometime in the past couple years? I swear that promotions to Expert had to be manually done already, and demoting takes away powers. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I remember it.
@Astro: yes, we can demote anyone back to "registered user" except Pokemaster and other mods. So we're fine if there is an abuse in power for anyone below 6k, but as you said I'm sure that if we find worthy experts below 6k, they are not the type to cause any issues. However, *after* 6k there really isn't a solution.
@trachy: thanks for the insight! I agree we do have to have a good level of trust with these experts, but I think so long as we hand out "early" promotions sparingly that there won't be any problem; we can remove the powers from anyone below 6k too. But after that amount there's definitely a proven issue. Hopefully the Gligurr situation simply won't happen again.
@JarJar: yeah that's how experts work, but not how the points work. Since you automatically get editing powers at 6k, expert or not, there's no way for people to lose those powers unless they drop below 6k or we ban them.
For the record if you get 6K on Pokebase you have editing powers on Pokebase but not on Meta or RMT. Expert gives you editing on all 3 sections but points will only give you powers on the section you achieve the points on.
Would there be any reason to reprimand a >6000 point user of editing powers anyway, outside of vandalism? Because I do think vandalism warrants a ban, and outside of that, it's quite difficult to be a bad Expert.
It would make sense to tie all powers to the actual Expert status then. I don't see why it isn't like that already.
Anyways, like I said, Experts do so little that I don't think adding more will do anything.
So, when are these due? Or is it just a pre-poll kind of thing to see how users feel, and you and the other mods will do this later?
@Indigo: no, you're exactly right. This is basically what happened with Gligurr, in fact.
@JarJar: it would be better that way I agree, but I don't think it's much of an issue for the same reason Indigo mentioned. Abuse of the site's features warrants more than just taking away powers or privileges. Although, I'm not really in agreement with your stance that adding new experts won't "do anything", I would attribute the lower amount of activity on their part to most of the experts being inactive altogether. By promoting active, quality users before 6k, we will see more edits made and therefore better posts entirely, in turn also promoting the "stronger culture" of making edits I mentioned above.
@Rex: there isn't any poll per se, promotions generally tend to go that a mod will suggest one and if the community and Pokemaster agree, then they will get the position. (Pokemaster has been known to delay promotions like this for months so yeah, some patience would do!)
The problem is there is nothing to edit, unless you want to reformat 500 different posts with missing information in RMT.
^ True dat. However, the Pokebase has questions by newer users that really need Editing due to shoddy spelling/grammar or because they don't make much sense. You're right though, we might need more Editors (or is that Mods) who can streamline the approval/rejection, as well as do stuff that Experts can't.

That said, I didn't know it was possible for someone to have the privileges without the points. I thought 6k was the base requirement. Do you suggest getting PM to reduce it to (like 2-3k) or do Mods have the power to promote without the requirement of points? Wait actually I think I get it.. That's how Experts are for all 3 sections, despite having more points in only one or two sections, right?
@JarJar: Rex pretty much just gave my response to that. There are always new posts made by new users that misuse formatting, have non-specific question titles or have poor grammar, having more experts gives us a stronger ability to deal with those.
@Rex: yes, we can promote users without any sort of point requirement, but we've never really done it since 6k is generally the requirement as you mentioned. Basically, what I'm saying in the post is that I think we should start making use of the feature, to break the 6k "tradition" and allow more community/ moderator involvement in promoting experts. And yes, experts have powers in all sections of the site, but the automatic editing powers provided at 6k only work in the main PokeBase.
Hi! I know I've been MIA for the past few....forever....but if it means anything I fully support Indigo being promoted. I don't think I know Astronautical so I won't give my opinion on them.
Just givin' this the old bump
Bump bump bump
I just edited this post with a bit of an update. In short, I still think the same users would do for promotions and think that we currently need staff more than ever.
Is there a way to contact PM directly? He hasn't been on in over a month, and while it might not be in good taste, since he probably has stuff of his own to deal with, it might be the only surefire way to reach him for now
I think he's active on q2a but I haven't got an account there (his last activity visible to me was within the past week)
Education sucks ;<

Btw fizz, if you ever need to disappear for a week or so, shoot me an email or something (you should still have it) and I'll fill. I still lurk once in a blue moon
Do need more admins tho ;<
Fizz the kinda guy to get caught cheating on his phone during an exam only for them to find out he was actually on admin in pokebase. He'll never disappear for 2 weeks pfft
Bump (filler)

1 Answer

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Best answer

Hello! Really sorry about the delay getting to this, I really don't know where the time went this year... I spent most of the little free time I had making updates to the main site and unfortunately missed a lot on Pokebase. I want to say for the record that I'm truly grateful for what you and the other mods/editors/experts are doing to keep the site running smoothly.

OK onto promotions. I've promoted Indigo and Astronautical to Editors. Welcome aboard! Here are some guidelines for the approval system.

And yes I'm happy to hear about further suggestions if you think we need them. I will open another thread for that. (Edit: thread is here.)

Also regarding Experts and points, maybe it would make sense to drop the 6000 points minimum and go back to manual promotions. I think the main reason I started doing it with points was so I didn't have to do it manually, but with more moderators it's not a problem. We'd still have 6000 points as the "guideline", but if a user has proven themselves worthy it would be fine to promote them. Let me know what you think.

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Congratulations, you guys! You completely deserve it!
Yo
Yooooooo
For real? Wow! Thanks! This is awesome! I'll do my best :D And congratulations Indigo!
Awesome news, thanks PM! I'll leave a few thoughts on the thread you posted when I have a moment :)